[rluey29]

Originally Posted by alx185

i am a student of palmetto high school (miami dade) and i would just like to say a few things on the subject.
i am a ninth grader this year and i cant tell you all from being in the school system that the truly great teachers dont need (financially) to teach. they do it because they want to (and they wont put up with much more bulls hit from the administration).
every one in this country should be legitimately scared (i know i am) of a vastly uneducated and manipulable populous being able to vote.
this bill wold bring us (the students) eight more standerdized tests a year one at the begining and end of each nine weeks period. the way thigs are now, teachers spend the first half of the year teaching s how to pass the FCAT. if this bill becomes law, we will only learn how to do well on the performance tests.
as for the firering of bad teachers, we already have a system for that. each rookie tacher is supposed to be observed (by an administrator for at least half an hour) once a year and for veteran teachers i think its once every three years. the fact of the matter is that this doesnt ge done. i have a teacher that has been teachng for 18 years and has been observed twice.
under this bill, where a teachers salary is based on the performance of their students, no one will want to teach the remedial students or the exeptional ones. wo will teach in poorer areas. and how will the salaries of art, phtography, and musc teachers be weighed?
my school has a uniform, and an email goes out to the teachers every morning, telling the teachers to report all uniform violations in 1st perid or 4th period on another day. my enlish teacher emediatly hits "delete" , she has more productive things to do than check if everyone shir has the emblem or if everyone id wearing their ID
my teacher is sure her name is on some list somewear (in the principals office) with a big black mark next to it. she is an exelant teacher and under ths new bill, when her contract comes up for renewal by the principal each year, she would be out of a job thankfull, she is one of the few that teaches for the love of it and and doent (fiscally) need to teach.
having said all of this, the education system as is, is far from perfet. a teacher with tenure could sit naked on a desk smoking crack before she got fired. but this bill is not the answer and will only make the situation worse
Alex Ramos Moderator cut: Contact via DM

Amazing that our young students are smarter that most of the leaders of this state.

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by mango23

I don't even have any kids and I pay thousands to educate other people children and pay teachers. How should I feel about that?

Public education is for the PUBLIC not for the benefit of "other people's children". Everyone pays for schools just like everyone pays for fire protection that most people never need. All taxpayers fund education for the benefit of all residents of a district. It's not for "other people's children", it's for the general public.

[StreetSmarts]

Its been known for years that many (not all) folks who come to FL to retire from up north do not want to help pay for education. They want everything else that benefits them though. But if it doesnt apply to them and/or benefit them, they want no part of it.

[flusteredteacher]

Obviously people who do not agree with the teachers have never tried to teach a child with mild to severe learning disabilites how to read. Think a fith grade child with the reading level of a second grader. Not because this child has had a poor education, but on the contrary, parents have taken the child to special tutors, the child was placed in special education since child was in K, was taught in public school by dedicated teachers, who tried many different approaches to advance this child. Now ask this child to take a standardized READING test on grade level, not their reading level, but fifth grade level. What do you get????? Flustered student, who gets physically ill when this wonderful test is placed in front of them. So upset, that they do not even attempt to try to answer.

Over and over, this scenario occurrs. Year upon year. Myself, and many of the special education teachers, suffer along with our stressed-out students, as each new year brings about more stress for our kids. Pushing them, not to learn what they need to..phonics, fluency, basic math (adding, subtracting) since these students often lack strength in the basic tools you and I possess. NO, Now, we have to teach them specifically how to try and pass a test that is too hard for them. Test taking 101 is what we do. The test does not encompass everything they need to know. It does not test the knowldege they should have aquired. It takes an incomplete picture of what someone thinks they should be able to do. In the end, it does not make for better education.

Do you think it is fair? I think it will lend itself to more poor teaching. More teachers trying to get good scores through unethical measures...this already occurrs and we don't even get paid for these results. Imagine what will happen when our salaries are based upon these tests. It will not make the teachers who they are trying to weed out, teach more aptly, it will get them to try unethical ways of getting higher scores.

How's that for improving education??????

[fbam]

Disband the teachers union. Allow school vouchers. The free market is an amazing thing you might be pleasantly surprised.

[mango23]

Originally Posted by Momma_bear

Public education is for the PUBLIC not for the benefit of "other people's children". Everyone pays for schools just like everyone pays for fire protection that most people never need. All taxpayers fund education for the benefit of all residents of a district. It's not for "other people's children", it's for the general public.

Not everyone pays for schools just property owners. We get handed the bill whether we have kids or not. You can be a dead beat apartment dweller and you get the benefit of the public school system for your children. Maybe people who don't own property should get a bill for their kids educations. Would you be willing to pay say $500.00 a month per kid in school. That would be cheap by the way. I bet you wouldn't, but I have to pay and I don't have any kids in the school system and never have. Tell me why that is fair?

[fbam]

[quote=mango23;13700185]Not everyone pays for schools just property owners. We get handed the bill whether we have kids or not. You can be a dead beat apartment dweller and you get the benefit of the public school system for your children.

Wow... I was a home owner in Fl with rental properties and first off when you pay rent you pay towards the property taxes. Any landlord that doesn't factor that in is a fool. and just because you rent does not make you a dead beat! There are pros and cons to both owning and renting. Don't be rude regardless of how superior you think you are.

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by mango23

Not everyone pays for schools just property owners. We get handed the bill whether we have kids or not. You can be a dead beat apartment dweller and you get the benefit of the public school system for your children. Maybe people who don't own property should get a bill for their kids educations. Would you be willing to pay say $500.00 a month per kid in school. That would be cheap by the way. I bet you wouldn't, but I have to pay and I don't have any kids in the school system and never have. Tell me why that is fair?

Just for the record-I have 3 kids in private schools. I pay way more than $500 per month per child for their education, yet I think that public schools should be funded by all who live in a particular jurisdiction (renters pay via their landlord). If schools are funded by property owners that would be all landowners, including those who own property that is rented out.

Public services are not provided simply for those who use them currently. They are provided to the general public which means that they are there for anyone who might need to use them at any time (big difference). We all pay for all sorts of public services that we may not currently use (meals on wheels, public libraries, police, fire, zoning boards, etc.). However, they are there for members of the public who DO need them.

[Momma_bear]

[quote=mango23;13702648]

Originally Posted by fbam

Ok not everyone pays rent, maybe they live with a parent of live in subsidized housing, maybe they live in their car or four families in one house as is common in south Florida.. Point is they get free educations regardless and others pay for it. Many who have nothing to gain from the school systems themselves. Like I said, is that fair?

No it's not fair. Every property owner in a jurisdiction pays property taxes regardless of who is living in the property. They pay property taxes even if the home is vacant (as are many properties these days).

The general public has a lot to gain from a good public school system regardless of whether they use it or not. Good public schools provide an educated workforce, which attracts businesses. Good public schools make an area desirable, which leads to higher property values. There are many benefits that accrue to the public from good public schools. Those benefits accrue to all property owners, not just those with kids in school. You are way off base here.

[loves2read]

Disband the teachers union. Allow school vouchers. The free market is an amazing thing you might be pleasantly surprised.
The "free market" is amazing--it gave us credit default swaps...unadulterated greed...a humongous recession and economic debacle that will haunt this county (or at least certain groups within it) for decades...yes--the free market is so great---it gives us coal mines that are death traps where it is less expensive to pay large fines than correct the dangerous working environment...

I will NEVER, EVER get over the incorrect perceptions people have about education---
teachers do not get paid holiday time like Spring Break or Christmas--they are paid for the DAYS THEY TEACH--they do not teach on Christmas break and they are not PAID for that--
they do have days --sick leave/personal days--when they can be absent from work which count toward their work days....
BUT the days in the summer when school is not in session--TEACHERS ARE NOT PAID!!!
This point has been made over and over and people still don't get it--well, it seems like in the movie The American President--just like Bob Rumson's character--THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO GET IT...