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Old 08-18-2007, 05:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickers View Post
Some of the cheapest and toughest hunks of meat seem to have the best flavors, the trick is to prep, cook and cut it so it turns into good food !
Question, is skirt steak the same as flank steak ? I need to find a good local soarce for the proper cut of beef that is tradiationaly used for Authentic "carne asada"
Skirt Steak is not the same as flank steak. It is the diaphragm muscle, coming from the forequarter. It is a small muscle. Flank is a larger muscle from the hindquarter. Skirt is very fibrous and should be pounded to tenderize, marinated and quickly grilled. The flank, plate, brisket can all be used in place of the skirt, if handled correctly.

At one time this cut was considered not as desirable and consequently it was cheaper and that is why you find it in carne asada. However, it was discovered, by the new rich, that it can be tasty and then the demand drove up the price.
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Old 08-18-2007, 05:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rcm58 View Post
True, that is why I stated that there are only 2 flanks in an entire beef. Also i was'nt stating that the hind quarter and elephant ear were the same thing, the elephant ear contains the flank and is the belly fat you mentioned. Flank is called flank because it flanks the steakloin or wraps around.

That said if you worked the Waldorf then you knew Sam that was the Executive Chef prior to 1984, He left the Waldorf and came to Boneventure in Fort Lauderdale Fla and I had the opportunity to work with him for about 3 years.
Thanks for the understanding of my mistake. No, I do not remember Sam--It was very long time ago in the seventies. To me whoever was in charge was always yelling at me---so I blocked it from my memory.
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Default cheese steak question

Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent View Post
Skirt Steak is not the same as flank steak. Skirt is very fibrous and should be pounded to tenderize, marinated and quickly grilled.
I have been told that skirt steak is what they make Philly cheese steak sandwiches out of. When I asked my butcher about skirt steak he had never heard of it.

Anybody have an authenic Philly cheese steak recipe they would love to share?
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:48 AM
 
Location: southern california
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHomeHappy View Post
Hello Grillers-

I am once again going to attempt to make a "edible" London Broil on the BBQ grill.

I am a prime example of Food 911.
I can't seem to get it right.
Always too tough, too burnt, too spicy, too much BBQ sauce.....I'm not grasping the "how to slice the meat with along grain" concept.

YES- I need a picture with diagrams and arrows. Anybody have one of those?

Please- before I ruin another London Broil, can someone walk me thru this mystery dish. Thanks !!
lots and lots of marinating.
stephen s
san diego
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:53 AM
 
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Love this thread, thanks to everyone for posting. Another thing I like to do with LB, in addition to some of these great suggestions, is marinate the heck out of it, slice thinly and then place in dehydrator and make jerky. Afterwards I vacuum seal the jerky and can have a great protein snack anytime.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson View Post
I have been told that skirt steak is what they make Philly cheese steak sandwiches out of. When I asked my butcher about skirt steak he had never heard of it.

Anybody have an authenic Philly cheese steak recipe they would love to share?
There would not be enough skirt steak to go around to make all the steak sandwiches and it would be too expensive today for a sandwich.

Philly Steak Sandwiches are generally made out of the Top Round, also called the Inside Round. But any restaurant operator can make it out of any cut of beef that is tender, or treated to be tendered by pounding. In addition, the cut would have to be at the cost level to make a competitive sandwich and that would rule out flank, skirt or any higher priced cuts. So the top round fits the bill for tenderness and cost.

In the store, as noted earlier in this thread, you will see Top Round labeled as London Broil--which it is not.

The way I would handle it at home, is to freeze the meat, so it is a little firm frozen. Then with a sharp knife I would cut across the grain to get very this slices. I would fry some onions in oil and then fry the beef quickly at a high heat until a little pink--this will keep it from getting tough. This is also how I handle beef for making stir fry. Of course in a restaurant a mechanical slicer would be great to make the slightly frozen beef thin.

A restaurant would buy portioned pre-cut frozen thin slices of beef which the cook would fry from the frozen. As I said, it is generally top round but it could be bottom round (outside round), sirloin, if very lean and cut thin.

As a note: the inside round is called such, because it is the inside of the leg and is also called top round because when the traditional butcher would toss the round on the cutting block to break the round, the inside round would be on the top, Consequenty the outside round is from the outside of the leg and when put on the block it is on the bottom--so therefore bottom round.

The inside muscles of the leg are less used and that makes an inside round tenderer than the more used muscles from the outside of the round and the outside round is tougher--and is generally braised to tenderize.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Thanks livecontent I will give that a try. I can have my butcher flash freeze meat then I will have him slice it thinly for me. I know it probably won't taste as good as the 'real' thing but might satisfy my craving.

Nothing like a true Philly steak and soft pretzel to make your day!
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Old 09-17-2007, 02:02 AM
 
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If you pound meat with a mallet, do you still need to marinade? I thought marinade was to add flavor only?

For the chefs, would you pound every meat prior to using?

I've never marinaded as I intensely dislike the flavors of bottled Italian dressing & soy/terraki sauces that were mentioned. At the risk of sounding like a baby, what else could I use & how many hours/days can you leave in the fridge to safely marinade?

Until I read this, I hadn't realized we had pro chefs onboard. I'm loving this board more & more daily...

Thank you... VV
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Old 09-17-2007, 05:40 AM
 
Location: somewhere on the map
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I use Dale liquid marinade on ALL my meat even the wildlife ones.............LB is hard also for me to work with..so i end up using it alot in crock pot..the Dale hasn't failed me yet and i am like the previous post i don't like soy sauce flavors or dressing flavors in my meat..

Some great pointers and advice on here..THANKS..........i'm game for about anything new....................
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittensPurr View Post
If you pound meat with a mallet, do you still need to marinade? I thought marinade was to add flavor only?

For the chefs, would you pound every meat prior to using?

I've never marinaded as I intensely dislike the flavors of bottled Italian dressing & soy/terraki sauces that were mentioned. At the risk of sounding like a baby, what else could I use & how many hours/days can you leave in the fridge to safely marinade?

Until I read this, I hadn't realized we had pro chefs onboard. I'm loving this board more & more daily...

Thank you... VV
That is true, marinades, in most cases, are to add flavor. The effect of marinating for tenderizing would depend on the acid level, whether a tenderizer is added, as in papain and the time. However Brining, which is sometimes confused with marinades changes the structure of the protein so it will retain more moisture as well as add flavor--the current rage is to brine turkeys before roasting. Sometimes brining and marinating are interchangeable and used together.

A good example of meat that is pounded then marinaded is skirt steak because is has long elongated muscles that would not be tenderized in the quick type of cooking that skirt steak is used for.

Beef from the Inside Round does not need to be pounded but can be if you wanted to flatten a steak for example Roladen. However bottom round would be improved by a pounding if for example making swiss steak--it would tenderize faster in the braising liquid and to make even steaks==but that is not necessary. The same procedures that apply for Eye Round as bottom round. I find the knuckle needs a little pounding.

Any tender steak that you grill, broil, pan fry would not be pounded as it would draw out moisture and isn't necessary, as strip steak, top sirloin, fillet, rib steak (it is sometimes pounded to spread it out and make it flatter--but very gently).

How long in a marinade? Beef I would not marinate for more that 4-6 hours, poultry 2-4 hours--though there are time I have marinating beef, poultry and pork overnight. Fish is good for 1 hour, obviously an exception for seviche. Now I know some dishes require longer marinades and some specify shorter marinades. However this depends on the marinade and the use of the product--for example smoked meats, marinades are much longer and of course corned beef in the traditional way is marinade longer. I am just talking about marinating for simple home purposes.

Some dishes as the classic SauerBraten or other sour beef dishes require much more marinade to create the sour----and this is the problem, marinade is a working process and a sour is the growth of another organism. And it could cause growth of dangerous pathogens or off tastes--that is why marinating is mostly done under refrigerated conditions. So dispose of the marinade, unless in some dishes the marinade is fully cooked or incorporated into some sour dishes.

There is much disagreement over the time of marinating. So I expect different opinions and criticism. Again I am only talking about simple marinades for the home, where refrigeration may not be controlled and the acid, salt in the marinade is variable, so the growth of pathogens is a concern and unwanted sours may not be acceptable.


As a note: In writing this, I noticed that I used the correct form for Marinade which is a noun and marinate which is a transitive verb, and Marinating is the Gerund. I had never though, consciously, about the differences until I realized that the spell check would take marinade and marinate--because one is the noun and one is the verb---I learned something today. I know you are saying who cares???? well it was interesting and I need a life.
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