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Old 03-31-2012, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,227,177 times
Reputation: 24738

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sheena12, my late lifetime best friend was a vegetarian. I am on the carnivore end of the spectrum. If I ate her diet, a carefully calculated vegetarian diet, I got sick as a dog. If she ate what I did, she did okay, but she was better as a vegetarian. Neither one of us, for a moment, considered it necessary for the other to change to eat the way we did - we both actually listened to our bodies and ate what our own, unique, individual bodies told us was the healthiest diet for us, without needing that supported by everyone else choosing a diet which worked for us but might not work so well for them. Surely, as a nurse, you understand this basic fact?

By the way, she's my late best friend not because of diet (at least, I don't think so), but because, despite the fact that she did everything "right", exercised regularly, ate a vegetarian diet, maintained her weight at its high school range, she still died of cancer. Ovarian in her case; every single member of her family, including a two-year-old niece, died of a different form of cancer. She was participating in a study on cancer and genetics at the time of her death. My own sister, who ate a 10% or less diet, is a competitive square dancer (not right now, because her 78 year old husband just had a knee replacement and is in the recuperative stage), with no history in the family, had breast cancer. Another dear friend, also vegetarian, also exercising regularly, maintaining weight, doing everything "right", died of breast cancer in her late 50's. All of this women did everything "right" according to received wisdom.

This idea that if we just do everything "right" that we'll never get sick and we'll never die is ludicrous, and verges on religious mania, in my observation, and as said, gives a false sense of security.

 
Old 04-01-2012, 07:22 AM
 
5,064 posts, read 15,845,295 times
Reputation: 3571
I don't see why a handful of posters here keep complaining becdause others want their foods properly labeled. I'm a label-reader and I eat foods as close to natural as possible. I don't eat hot dogs, most deli-meats, very little pre-packaged foods etc. I avoid chain restaurants or fast-foods. If I want some ground beef, I want it as close to natural as possible. I can go to my local Big Y that doesn't use pink slime (as anonchick pointed out) and have them grind it up for me on the spot. If people want to eat pink slime, or nitrates, or any other additives let them do so. I just want to have the choice, so please label it as such.

As for children being served heavily processed foods without a choice though, I'm not quite as open-minded. I'm grateful that the school system in Ct. starts early, healthy eating education. Connecticut schools are actually very good about serving healthier lunches such as baked whole wheat chicken nuggest as opposed to fried, with no soda machines or fried chips for snacks, etc. I'm happy to see that our school system's healthier trend is extending to the type of meat served, too. Our schools are eliminating the use of pink slime after this month. In addition they will be serving more ground turkey in place of beef. Our state has one of the lowest obesity rates in the nation, and we don't have the glut of fast-food restaurants that most other states have. We must be doing something right.
 
Old 04-01-2012, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,227,177 times
Reputation: 24738
I don't think it's about being "properly labelled", and I don't really buy that it's about choice - they HAVE choice already, they can have the butcher grind the meat for them from a piece of meat they buy whole, they can buy the piece of meat whole and take it home and grind it themselves, if they don't trust the butcher (but for some reason will trust a piece of paper stuck on a package). They can avoid commercial jams and jellies (the fruit in which is also misted with the same product as pink slime is) and make their own.

It's about swallowing whole every scary story out there in a way that they would NEVER swallow something with the icky name of "pink slime" no matter what the reality is. It's about thinking that somehow if you do everything right that you'll never die, and that there's a conspiracy out there of people trying to deliberately harm you for their own benefit.

It's about a sad, frightened, controlling approach to life that's pervading our society that's a heck of a lot worse for us than pink slime.

I can remember several times in past when "healthy food" was introduced into school cafeterias. (When I was little, the school lunches were healthy food, though people thinking about healthy food these days likely wouldn't think so because the meat wasn't lean to within an inch of its life and such - amazing how what's healthy changes and flip flops back and forth and the human body never does, at least not in one lifetime). The upshot was that a lot of it ended up in the trash and the kids who brought their own not-so-healthy lunches became very popular if they were willing to trade for something. Because kids learn outside of school about soft drinks and snacks and food that we don't want the schools serving.

I agree that soda machines and snack machines have no place on school grounds, by the way, and that schools should serve healthy foods. Just don't be surprised when the predictable happens yet again.
 
Old 04-01-2012, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque
5,548 posts, read 16,036,251 times
Reputation: 2756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
Or we could just call it processed meat. That would be honest, ...
No, that wouldn't be honest.

Ground beef is processed meat. So is bacon. Just calling it "meat" doesn't distinguish between beef, pork, etc.

If you don't like Pink Slime, then centrifuged beef would be good. That eliminates any ambiguity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Where do you get that it's meat that "fell on the cutting room floor"?
I said "maybe." In the news that I was watching it was clearly scrapings that were piling up all over the place.
It was not cut from anything. Where do you get the idea that it does not include stuff that fell on the cutting room floor?
Why would I care one way or another?

I don't care if it fell to the floor anyway. It's treated for bacteria with ammonium hydroxide and I clearly said it was probably safe to eat straight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Near as I can tell, it's, ...
So you don't actually know, you are just jumping down people's throats then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
... like hamburger, meat that isn't fancy enough for steak or roasts, just taken from closer to the bone ...
That IS what hamburger meat is.

If it were "fancy enough for steak" it wouldn't be hamburger. Hamburger meat is never "fancy enough for steak."

Pink Slime is not fancy enough for hamburger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
... mechanically, put in a centrifuge to get the terrifying fat out of it ...
Nobody who eats meat is terrified of fat.

Last edited by mortimer; 04-01-2012 at 03:19 PM..
 
Old 04-01-2012, 06:08 PM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,347,867 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
No, that wouldn't be honest.
Wrong. Processed meat is what it IS. Nothing more, and nothing less.
 
Old 04-01-2012, 07:46 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,337 posts, read 26,386,909 times
Reputation: 11334
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
The meat is not misted with ammonia, but with ammonium hydroxide. And it's not spinal tissue, it's meat just like hamburger, as I understand it. The reason it needs to be treated is because of the necessity, due to consumer demand, of handling it in a way that removes the fat, which leaves it, like regular old hamburger, more likely to be contaminated by such things as e coli.

What we have here is simply a matter of consumer demand created by consumer fears - first of fat, and then of bacteria.
Everything I've read on it says it contains spinal tissue. Spinal tissue, connective tissues, and other similarly delicious and wholesome parts of the animal. It's what was previously called "mechanically separated" which was banned for human consumption because of the danger. The ammonia treatment was devised to allow it for human consumption again.
 
Old 04-01-2012, 08:55 PM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,347,867 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Everything I've read on it says it contains spinal tissue. Spinal tissue, connective tissues, and other similarly delicious and wholesome parts of the animal. It's what was previously called "mechanically separated" which was banned for human consumption because of the danger. The ammonia treatment was devised to allow it for human consumption again.
That may be partially true. Said treatment kills the e coli bacteria.
 
Old 04-02-2012, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,982 posts, read 6,704,240 times
Reputation: 2882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
First of all, it is ILLEGAL to dump manure into rivers, so that claim is 100% false.

Second, manure spread on soil is what non-nutty environmentalists call FERTILIZER. It's what helps grow your virgin eggplant.

Third, the idea that it takes more land to produce beef than anything else is a lie that was started by an agenda-driven talking head, and repeated ad nauseaum by uninformed people who want to believe it.


Please try again.
Just because it is illegal does not mean it isn't done when no one is looking:

"Smithfield has come under criticism for the millions of gallons of untreated fecal matter it produces and stores in the lagoons. In a four-year period, in North Carolina alone, 4.7 million gallons of hog fecal matter were released into the state's rivers. Workers and residents near Smithfield plants have reported health problems, and have complained about constant, overpowering stenches of hog feces.[3] In 1997 the company was fined $12.6 million for violation of the federal Clean Water Act. It was the third-largest civil penalty levied under the act."
 
Old 04-02-2012, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,982 posts, read 6,704,240 times
Reputation: 2882
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Not to mention, if everyone were to become vegetarian, we would be in direct competition with all of the wildlife, both animal and vegetative, for the land needed to grow fruits and vegetables to feed us all. That's something that's glossed over, if it's even thought of at all, by those advocating a vegetarian diet for everyone. (Never mind that some of us get sick as a dog on the most carefully controlled vegetarian diet because everyone is not identical and just like you physiologically, threatening as that idea might be to some.

Wrong. Vegetarian diets require less land because when converting vegetable calories into meat calories there will always be losses. A cow burns energy if it is walking as well as sleeping and that is lost energy. Why do you think meat consumption is so low in most Asian countries? They don't have enough land to support every citizen eating a pound a day and that is why countries like China are investing in Argentine beef production. You might blame the Feds for the high use of corn but in the end the most likely reason is that it is cheaper for the producers to use corn over pasture farming. Here are the feed conversion efficiencies of selected meats:

"Animals that have a low FCR are considered efficient users of feed. Sheep and cattle need more than 8*kg of feed to put on 1*kg of live weight. The U.S. pork industry claims to have an FCR of 3.4-3.6 [1][dead link].[2] Farm raised Atlantic salmon apparently have a very good FCR, about 1.2.[citation needed]"

I can't comment on diet and individuals but please post some studies/data on this.
 
Old 04-02-2012, 09:59 AM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,347,867 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Wrong. Vegetarian diets require less land because when converting vegetable calories into meat calories there will always be losses.
Wrong. Millions of cattle graze land that is of absolutely no use for anything else. It's "found money" so to speak

A cow burns energy if it is walking as well as sleeping and that is lost energy. Why do you think meat consumption is so low in most Asian countries?
Because they cannot afford to buy meat. Also, in some countries they worship cows. Kind of a no-brainer there, right?

They don't have enough land to support every citizen eating a pound a day and that is why countries like China are investing in Argentine beef production.
China has the land for beef production. They just don't use it as such.

You might blame the Feds for the high use of corn but in the end the most likely reason is that it is cheaper for the producers to use corn over pasture farming.
That is absolutely, completely, totally, 100% WRONG. Pure BS!

I can't comment on diet and individuals but please post some studies/data on this.
You live in town, don't you? Always have, right?
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