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Old 04-26-2014, 09:01 AM
 
Location: San Antonio/Houston
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Soured milk is produced by uncontrolled milk fermentation using naturally-occurring bacteria. Yogurt is produced by controlled milk fermentation of milk by lactic acid bacteria.

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Soured Milks: What
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Old 04-29-2014, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Western Oregon
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Yogurts from different sources have different bacteria, and most have multiple types. My favorite yogurts have L. Bulgaricus in the culture. Here's one of my favorites:

http://static.caloriecount.about.com...ian-156369.jpg

Last edited by Beretta; 04-30-2014 at 05:52 PM..
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Old 04-30-2014, 02:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnina View Post
Soured milk is produced by uncontrolled milk fermentation using naturally-occurring bacteria. Yogurt is produced by controlled milk fermentation of milk by lactic acid bacteria.

More here:
Soured Milks: What
This is certainly true if you start with pasteurized milk. However, raw milk does not sour. It ferments. My definition of "sour" would be it is unsafe to eat/drink. Fermented raw milk however is drinkable/edible in every form from liquid to sour-tasting liquid (you can use it in cooking such as throwing it in tomato soup, smoothies, scrambled eggs, etc) to semi-solid to solid.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:48 AM
 
Location: NYC
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When any food goes through a controlled fermentation process it is safe compare to allowing unknown bacterias.

You know that Kimchee is made by putting cabbage in these big urns or drums with fish paste, spices, salt, out in hot weather to get stinky.
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodstockSchool1980 View Post
Yogurt is the same whey.
That's definitely the pun of the day.

Yogurt is not a product of rotting, though. It's cultured, not rotted, meaning that the acidophilus bugs have eaten the milk (or in my case the soybeans) and reproduced, so you have a tub of mostly acidophilus -- it's no longer a tub of milk. It's a tasty serving of live bacteria. Yum!

Now, the hakarl or "rotten shark" they make in Greenland, by catching a shark and burying it in the sand on the nearest beach for 6 weeks? That's a local delicacy made of something rotten.
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Old 05-01-2014, 04:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCat1105 View Post
I think this topic is more a matter of semantics than of yogurt. The dictionary definition of both rotten and rancid explains that both words mean tainted, or unpleasant. Since yogurt (in my opinion) is neither, then no, yogurt is not rancid or rotten milk!
I agree with the definition for rancid you provide but I would also add "could cause foodborne illness."
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by freepelican View Post
I agree with the definition for rancid you provide but I would also add "could cause foodborne illness."
In terms of food spoilage the bacteria that spoil food are actually different from the ones that make you ill. Basically the bad taste of spoiled food is a warning that the food item may make you ill. I.e. There are high bacteria levels in this food item in general which in turn means there is an extremely good chance that the item is not safe to eat.

This is why some types of “spoilage” such as turning milk to yogurt, butter milk, cheese, sour cream and so on don’t make you ill where as others do. In this case of yogurt and others the spoiling process is controlled in such a way to yield an useful product.

In the case of milk bacteria in the milk produce lactic acid which is what sours the milk. Raw milk isn’t pasteurized, homogenized and has not had it’s fat levels reduced and so it will “spoil” differently. However if the raw milk contains pathogens(the kind of bacteria or viruses that make you ill) it surely will make you ill.

Raw milk turns to butter milk because it isn't homogenized and the cream(what will become butter) will float to the top. Homogenized milk will not. However you can pasteurize milk, add the correct bacteria and get a much safer form of butter milk just as well. The reason why people switched to pasteurized milk was due to food safety. All you need is for either the cow to be sick or the milk to come in contact with pathogens before being served and you can get sick. Organic farms are not immune to it, but when food started to be made on industrial scale food safety became important. i.e. It is one thing for an little farm to sicken it's owner and the owner's family. It is an whole other problem when the farm has the potential to sicken hundreds.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Western Oregon
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On the subject of raw milk versus pasteurized, and making cheese with them, here's what master cheesemaker Sid Cook has to say to the question of "Does the process of pasteurizing the cheese really destroy a lot of the flavor?"

Differences between pasteurized cheese and un-pasteurized cheese.

"I enjoy raw milk cheeses and have probably made more raw that pasteurized......those were the good old days of walking to school up hill in 6 inches of snow......

Absolutely not.....you can chose and blend culture is get the right flavor profile in a pasteurized cheese. It is easier to control flavor and consistency and body..

When you use raw milk you have a vastly different flora in the milk on a daily basis.... seasonally, weather, point in lactation cycle of the animal.
You have to many variables for a consistly good product......for maybe 2% of the total being better than Pasteurized and 80% not being as good.

Sid Cook"
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:37 PM
 
642 posts, read 909,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
In terms of food spoilage the bacteria that spoil food are actually different from the ones that make you ill. Basically the bad taste of spoiled food is a warning that the food item may make you ill. I.e. There are high bacteria levels in this food item in general which in turn means there is an extremely good chance that the item is not safe to eat.

This is why some types of “spoilage” such as turning milk to yogurt, butter milk, cheese, sour cream and so on don’t make you ill where as others do. In this case of yogurt and others the spoiling process is controlled in such a way to yield an useful product.

In the case of milk bacteria in the milk produce lactic acid which is what sours the milk. Raw milk isn’t pasteurized, homogenized and has not had it’s fat levels reduced and so it will “spoil” differently. However if the raw milk contains pathogens(the kind of bacteria or viruses that make you ill) it surely will make you ill.

Raw milk turns to butter milk because it isn't homogenized and the cream(what will become butter) will float to the top. Homogenized milk will not. However you can pasteurize milk, add the correct bacteria and get a much safer form of butter milk just as well. The reason why people switched to pasteurized milk was due to food safety. All you need is for either the cow to be sick or the milk to come in contact with pathogens before being served and you can get sick. Organic farms are not immune to it, but when food started to be made on industrial scale food safety became important. i.e. It is one thing for an little farm to sicken it's owner and the owner's family. It is an whole other problem when the farm has the potential to sicken hundreds.
Just a quick reply for now... when you have a diverse community of friendly (most Lactobacillus but others too) bacteria and living enzymes, these keep the pathogens from getting out of hand. However, if you have pasteurized milk where these have all been killed, the pathogens have free reign... this is sort of over-simplified but basically true.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Western Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freepelican View Post
Just a quick reply for now... when you have a diverse community of friendly (most Lactobacillus but others too) bacteria and living enzymes, these keep the pathogens from getting out of hand. However, if you have pasteurized milk where these have all been killed, the pathogens have free reign... this is sort of over-simplified but basically true.
The pathogens have been killed too.
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