Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Part of the OP's complaint about organic seems to be the smaller crop production levels. However, IMHO, that isn't really a food production problem so much as an overpopulation problem. Which no longer seems to be of any concern to anyone. Back in the middle of the last century, there was a huge hue and cry about how the planet was becoming overpopulated and wouldn't be able to sustain itself. That was right before China instituted their one or two kids per couple laws. Now, you don't hear so much about the overpopulation problem anymore. Not quite sure why. It would solve a lot of problems if there were a lot less people on the planet. We wouldn't necessarily have to remove any of the ones already here, just lower the birth rate and allow the numbers to decrease. That would then allow folks to grow better food and live in better conditions.
Hmm, I wonder if the overpopulation/the-world-won't-be-able-to-feed-itself media hysteria was hyped to allow companies such as Monsanto to use loads of pesticides and GMO's and such? Without that "OMG we are all going to starve" mentality that was common at that time, would the current farming practices have been allowed to happen?
Well, back to current events, we don't especially buy "organic" but we will if it's within our budget. We do try to source everything close to home and buy from the folks who grew or produced it when ever possible.
We also try to produce a lot of our own, too. We just bought a new house late last year and we still haven't moved in yet but will soon (it's a major fixer-upper) but, before we've even moved in, fruit trees have been planted and the garden has been started. The first raised bed vegetable garden outside the kitchen door should be finished next week so we will start getting food really soon after moving in. It will be fertilized with "organic" fertilizer, but that's only because we have rabbits and chickens to provide manure and we don't have enough $$$ to afford imported fertilizers. It won't be an "organic" garden because there will be slug pellets around the exterior of the garden as well as diotomaceous earth, although that might be allowed under "organic" practices.
During at least one of the World Wars, 40% of the vegetables in the United States were grown in "Victory Gardens". So, perhaps instead of worrying that crop production will be less due to organic practices, perhaps we should encourage folks to grow their own where ever they can. There also used to be the big "home farms" in England. All the big estates would basically feed themselves. No reason why a lot of families can't produce some of their own food.
Actually, I think right now I shall get off this computer and go plant something. Non-GMO and organic, too.
During at least one of the World Wars, 40% of the vegetables in the United States were grown in "Victory Gardens". So, perhaps instead of worrying that crop production will be less due to organic practices, perhaps we should encourage folks to grow their own where ever they can. There also used to be the big "home farms" in England. All the big estates would basically feed themselves. No reason why a lot of families can't produce some of their own food.
I agree with this; but the over-population aspect of your post deserves its own thread to allow for adequate debate.
I think the "organics can't feed the world" trope is really ignorant. Petroleum based fertilizers and pesticides and industrial farming practices degrade and compact the soil and leave it more vulnerable to erosion and push down crop yields year-after-year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
Part of the OP's complaint about organic seems to be the smaller crop production levels. However, IMHO, that isn't really a food production problem so much as an overpopulation problem. Which no longer seems to be of any concern to anyone. Back in the middle of the last century, there was a huge hue and cry about how the planet was becoming overpopulated and wouldn't be able to sustain itself. That was right before China instituted their one or two kids per couple laws. Now, you don't hear so much about the overpopulation problem anymore. Not quite sure why. It would solve a lot of problems if there were a lot less people on the planet. We wouldn't necessarily have to remove any of the ones already here, just lower the birth rate and allow the numbers to decrease. That would then allow folks to grow better food and live in better conditions.
Probably mostly because the global population is leveling off. The birth rate in Europe and Australia has been below replacement level for a while. In North and South America we're pretty much at replacement level. With the exception of India most Asian countries are at or near replacement level and falling.
At this point it's really only India and a few African countries that are production most of the world's kids.
Replacement level in the US, because of it's relatively high infant mortality rate (for a developed country) is 2.2 kids per woman. So in most of these countries the native population is either stagnant or shrinking and in the case of places like the US and UK - is only growing because of immigration. Even in a place like Mali with a really high birth rate it's still not as far above replacement level as it would appear because of the high infant mortality rate there.
So at 10 kcal, the world agricultural system produces enough kcal to feed 10 billion persons. But the world does not produce enough food for 7 billion persons because the system produces too many carbohydrates, and not enough protein and fat. As a result, hunger is mainly caused by a lack of protein and fat, not primarily by a lack of carbs.
^ This.
Protein and fat are expensive foods, and the poor eat a disproportionate amount of carbs. This often leads to obesity, paradoxically, in a person who is actually starving. A lack of protein, and especially, a lack of fat, leads to hunger...and if the only food available is carbs, the person stays hungry (even if obese).
I actually question this whole fruit/vegetable thing, not just the organic type. The idea that we have to eat "5 different colors" a day smacks of railroading us into eating more carbs and less protein/fat in the name of being better for our health. I recently met a woman who claimed that she ate nothing but "organic" food, and had an air of superiority about her. Yup...she was very much overweight.
Thanks but I'll have my nice, juicy steak. Don't care if it's not organic!
Some foods I prefer organic because of the taste and/or consistency. Others, I don't, or I don't care one way or another, so I choose the cheaper option.
I've gone organic because the food generally tastes better. (Fresh heirloom tomatoes!) With no real chance in diet otherwise, I just generally felt better. I've always watched what I ate anyways but despite my advanced age I feel like I have more energy and feel healthier.
Sure it costs marginally more, but between farmers markets and certain stores, my food budget isn only about 10% higher then it was a few years ago.
Someone picks the foods that have been sprayed with chemicals. I wonder what that does to the people putting cheap food on our plates? I find myself thinking more and more about how food gets to my plate.
I eat organic as much as possible. I know the small farmers and gardeners at the local Farmers Market. I even know the people who roast my coffee. I have learned going organic is not much more expensive, since giving up wheat and corn. I do not purchase processed food.
My family generates less than a can of garbage per week. We used to put out five cans a week. I am ashamed to say, we used to waste so much food.
Organic foods are not realistic. If all farms were organic, there would not be enough food for the world. You see, organic crops do not yield the same amount as nonorganic. Just a couple of years back, the government announced to farmer's that we need to nearly double our yields in 10 years or so or we would have a food shortage. Meadows were put into corn, famer's plowed as close to ditches and roads as they could get, every possible niche of land was opened up for crops.
Then you have the blind organic believer's that don't want pesticides, fertilizers and etc. Can they not see that it is NECESSARY to sustain our food chain?
Cancer has been around since the beginning of time. It hadn't been discovered, but it was there. How may people died of old age or unknown illnesses? With such a huge population, yes, we have more cancer. Two centuries ago approximately 50% of children died in the first couple of years (from illnesses, not cancer) so are we really to complain of the odds we have now? Balance the risks of cancer in the present verses the odds they had back then- I'd say we are still in a better place now.
We need food to survive.
Subsidies in the U.S. keep production of various food crops down. Talk to our government about lifting subsidies to produce more products.
Your way of sustainability will assist in killing off the planet along with a host of other man-designed products.
So, in essence, you're saying we have a choice: a) Eat food grown with chemicals and develop issues later in life b) Eat organics and pay through the nose . My compromise is both and like voting, I choose the various evils and non-evils when grocery-shopping. I have a fine dish of something too hot from a friend. I said if I need to, I'll use sour cream to deaden the heat. I will use organic cream because it's a one time shot and regular dairy is so nasty that I can't stomach it anymore.
I'm always balancing risks. I saw what chemo did to family members who opted for it. If I get cancer, I'm not allowing chemo to support the medical conglomerate. Twenty years ago, my response would've been different. As a freshman in college with Life mag. coming out quietly as anti-organic (harhar, they seemed to say), I was really confused. Now I just wonder who was really behind the anti-organic shot.
As the GMO crops are grown with chemicals, bugs are becoming resistant to them. It's killing the land. It's polluting even more water. It's killing us along with so many other human-created factors.
**** In our tiny village in NY, when pesticides were sprayed on lawns, we had to post signs warning people about the spraying. Here, my next door neighbor warns me and close neighbors about her lawn so our dogs don't get sick from it.
Last edited by PeaceOut001; 01-29-2015 at 03:01 PM..
Reason: more facts
Someone picks the foods that have been sprayed with chemicals. I wonder what that does to the people putting cheap food on our plates? I find myself thinking more and more about how food gets to my plate.
I eat organic as much as possible. I know the small farmers and gardeners at the local Farmers Market. I even know the people who roast my coffee. I have learned going organic is not much more expensive, since giving up wheat and corn. I do not purchase processed food.
My family generates less than a can of garbage per week. We used to put out five cans a week. I am ashamed to say, we used to waste so much food.
I think about that, too. It's the reason I ended my relationship with the local landscaping company who kept my yard weed-free a few years ago. I just couldn't stomach seeing young people spraying toxic substances without protective gear month after month, much less worrying about the birds and other creatures who call my yard home. I decided that if I was really concerned about the weeds, I needed to get out there and pull them by hand. So I did.
I think about that, too. It's the reason I ended my relationship with the local landscaping company who kept my yard weed-free a few years ago. I just couldn't stomach seeing young people spraying toxic substances without protective gear month after month, much less worrying about the birds and other creatures who call my yard home. I decided that if I was really concerned about the weeds, I needed to get out there and pull them by hand. So I did.
We gave up chemicals many years ago, and if it were not for the weeds, we would have no lawn. We rarely if ever water except for the flower beds. We find the weeds quite hearty and beautiful. I can't tell you how many, volleyball, soccer, football, and baseball games were played on those weeds.
I hope others consider giving up chemicals, too.
Last edited by RonkonkomaNative; 01-29-2015 at 02:25 PM..
Reason: spelling
Seriously, nobody is stopping people from growing at least some of their own food. I've done container gardens when living in places (like military housing) where we were not permitted to dig a garden, etc. My MIL lives in a senior condo with no yard, and grows all kinds of crops on her balcony.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We rarely if ever water except for the flower beds. We find the weeds quite hearty and beautiful. I can't tell you how many, volleyball, soccer, football, and baseball games were played on those weeds. 
