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Old 01-16-2008, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 30,618,996 times
Reputation: 15560

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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post

If the government says it's OK, it must be.
I wouldnt trust those bureucrats (sp?) as far as I could throw them! Look at all the bungling the FDA has done lately with prescription meds.
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Old 01-16-2008, 08:44 PM
 
Location: a nation with hope
13,155 posts, read 16,876,580 times
Reputation: 5009
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
I wouldnt trust those bureucrats (sp?) as far as I could throw them! Look at all the bungling the FDA has done lately with prescription meds.
It was said tongue-in-cheek. There's no icon for that. We need an icon for tongue-in-cheek, mods! I suppose I could have used this one:
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Old 01-16-2008, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 30,618,996 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
It was said tongue-in-cheek. There's no icon for that. We need an icon for tongue-in-cheek, mods! I suppose I could have used this one:
Knew that, thats why I lifted just that part of your quote! It was too perfect to just let it lie there.
Wish we did have more icons, too! Mods, do ya hear us?
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:01 PM
 
Location: :0)1 CORINTHIANS,13*"KYRIE, ELEISON!"*"CHRISTE, ELEISON" KYRIE, ELEISON!"0)
2,519 posts, read 4,929,945 times
Reputation: 4251
Thumbs up Hello Maine Writer!

THANK YOU MAINE WRITER !!

AND KUDOS to you

and the person that started this thread!

People need to be aware of this!

If I am not mistaken, if you buy ORGANIC GRASS FED BEEF, it will NOT be

cloned!

I believe that everyone should do their own research. And I also think that it

is a personal choice, one that I will not be making!

We all know too well how the FDA makes mistakes from time to time.


Countrylv22



Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Writer View Post
Super weeds and pests develop as pests become pesticide resistant. They then require a stronger pesticides, and the cycle continues. How does genetic engineering make food bigger? Or cheaper? The cost increases from the start of the production process. Farmers pay a fee for every bag of GE seeds they buy. Seed can't be saved so the cost is perpetual.

Negatives in cloning animals -
It's expensive. As someone else mentioned, it's more expensive that probably any of us can afford. With a success rate of 3% or less a lot of money goes into the tiny percentage of animals that are conceived.

Many offspring die before birth. Those that survive are prone to enlarged organs and die young. If an animal isn't healthy enough to sustain itself is it something you want to eat? We can buy plenty of meat from unhealthy animals for a lot less money already.

Cloned animals have a higher rate of cancer, tumors and infection. Is that something we're willing to eat? Remember, the USDA hasn't been able to control downer cows from going into our food chain. What's a little cancer or pus? The USDA also allowed chicken litter - wood shavings, manure, feathers - to be fed to beef cattle. We can't depend on the USDA to keep cloned animal meat any safer than they keep other meat.

The FDA's own vet medicine panel says there are too many uncertainties to call cloned animal products safe. Our government doesn't agree on the safety issue.

Back to Large Offspring Syndrome - if an animal can't give birth naturally should we be promoting it as breeding quality? LOS causes a high percentage of c-sections. The offspring that survive often have abnormally large hearts that can't support their bodies. They die. Those that survive are prone to enlarged tongues and deformed faces that make it difficult for them to eat. They're prone to diseases such as diabetes and immune deficiencies. Can we as taxpayers afford to support something so flawed and inefficient?

There are a lot more problems involved in cloning. We don't need it. We have no shortage of meat. I don't see what real purpose cloning serves other than to make a few people very wealthy creating meat most people can't afford.

An endangered breed of either sheep or goat was being cloned at one time. I don't know if this is still happening. I hope not. When you're dealing with endangered animals (I do deal with endangered breeds of livestock and poultry) you need to be very careful that you breed only the best. When there are so few you can't afford to screw up what's left.

I hope everyone takes what I've said with a grain of salt and does their own research into the problems of cloning before taking a bite of cloned meat. I'm not an expert, just a farmer who's done a lot of research.
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:29 PM
 
Location: :0)1 CORINTHIANS,13*"KYRIE, ELEISON!"*"CHRISTE, ELEISON" KYRIE, ELEISON!"0)
2,519 posts, read 4,929,945 times
Reputation: 4251
Thumbs up HELLO KSHE95girl!

THANK YOU FOR STARTING THE THREAD!!


THIS IS EXTREMEMLY IMPORTANT!!

KUDOS TO YOU!!

I wonder why other countries are saying that they will not be buying cloned

products from us??? I wonder why???

Could there be a major HEALTH REASON???

I hope that everyone will do their own research, so they can come to their

conclusions! I know that I WILL NOT TOUCH ANY OF IT!

But that's just me & my humble opinion.....

THANK YOU!

Countrylv22

Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Sorry, couldnt get my link to work!
The FDA has approved the sale of cloned animal meat and other products for sale, saying it is safe.
I would like to know how everyone else feels about this.
I was not even sure if this would be the right forum, but since we are going to end up ingesting said products, let me know!
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:57 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
18,946 posts, read 21,936,951 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
I started this thread to generate a thoughtful discussion. If one stops to think about how cloning has the possibility to narrow the gene pool of all these animals, it cannot be a good thing!
My last paragraph was my ethical statement, not a knee-jerk reaction. I dont believe I have ever had one of those in my life!
You touch upon a very valid concern in my opinion - one that's been largely overlooked - that is the narrowing of the gene pool that is likely to take place if food animal cloning ends up being widely used. There will be a natural tendency to clone only those animals that have the highest grade, most plentiful meat - and this is from a starting population of animals that is ALREADY highly interbred to produce specific breeds. This could very easily result (over time) in a very, very narrow gene pool - much, much, much more narrow than we have in these animals today since all the breeders will want to produce the very best (most profitable) animals they can - zeroing in on what they perceive as the best of the best of the best. I can imagine a time when such "top grade" animals may be cloned in the hundreds of thousands - or even millions - to acheive the best economy of scale. The problem of course with a narrow gene pool is that a genetic weakness in one animal translates to that genetic weakness being in many (or even most) of the animals. So, what happens when (not if) a new strain of desease appears that those particular animals are extremely susceptable to? The answer is simple - a massive die-off. Instead of say 10% of the animals affected, you have 90% (or more) - in which case most of your food source disappears in a single stroke. You are truly putting all of "your eggs in the same basket". Pretty risky the long run in my opinion.

I should add that this same potential problem exists not just for cloned animals, but also for genetically engineered grains, fruits and vegitables. Diversity exists in nature for a reason - too much interbreeding of any plant or animal is a recipe for disaster at some point down the road. Likewise cloning will produce it's own set of similar problems.

Just another consideration to think about.

Ken
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:01 AM
 
Location: In a house
21,902 posts, read 20,899,510 times
Reputation: 14822
I am so not into eating anything that isn't "natural". I am by no means a health food eater but I eat healthy. This just doesn't sound healthy to me. I could be wrong but as said by another poster I don't trust what our Government says--sorry! We will be told just about anything so they can rake in the $$$. Just my personal opinion. I'd rather go vegetarian.
And YES-----take a look at our FDA...do you trust them???
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Oz
2,238 posts, read 8,697,610 times
Reputation: 1368
I'm a little surprised by the level of misunderstanding in this thread about exactly what cloned means. There's no alteration of the DNA involved. It's the same as an identical twin of the animal. Are you afraid to eat an animal that's a twin because it's unnatural? No? There's no difference with a clone. Also, the genetic pool will not be affected for one simple reason -- animal sperm banks.

Cloning is no more unnatural than artificial insemination or in-vitro fertilization. It's not altering the animal in any way, it's just a different way of reproduction.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:32 AM
 
Location: In a house
21,902 posts, read 20,899,510 times
Reputation: 14822
That's it right there---it's a different way of reproduction--not natural. I guess you are right, I don't fully understand it. It just makes me think of that old ad....Don't mess with mother nature! Guess I'm in a different age group.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:43 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
18,946 posts, read 21,936,951 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoaminRed View Post
I'm a little surprised by the level of misunderstanding in this thread about exactly what cloned means. There's no alteration of the DNA involved. It's the same as an identical twin of the animal. Are you afraid to eat an animal that's a twin because it's unnatural? No? There's no difference with a clone. Also, the genetic pool will not be affected for one simple reason -- animal sperm banks.

Cloning is no more unnatural than artificial insemination or in-vitro fertilization. It's not altering the animal in any way, it's just a different way of reproduction.
Actually, though in theory the cloning process produces an identical twin, in reality - as others have mentioned - the resulting animals are indeed prone to having health problems (read about Dolly the sheep: Dolly (sheep) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The reasons for this are not entirely clear - and may be resolved in time, but for now there does seem to be an increased risk of some diseases.

Regarding your statement about the gene pool and animal sperm banks - there will be NO sperm banks, cloning makes them unnecessary. The farming industry will clone directly off the most prized animals - possibly producing hundreds of thousands of copies of those animals with the most desirable traits and consequently cutting from the gene pool the vast majority of the rest.

Ken

Last edited by LordBalfor; 01-17-2008 at 10:13 AM..
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