Favre playing well BECAUSE OF the Vikings....what about Brady?

[DOUBLE H]

Coolhand makes a good point. It helped Elway to great some great players near the end of his career, pro bowlers(Sharpe, Terrell Davis). Marino did not have that luxury.

[texdav]

Yes their are alot of qaurterbacks that would do better with a netter team. Lok at arche manning. The farve thing really show that green bays offensive line make a big difference. Tier new qaurterback could use more protection too.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by 10,000Lakes

Mathguy, I wasn't trying to rag on you, it's just been such a fun season to watch this year that is all!!! I guess we will see you (Bears) twice, coming up soon!!!

Yep and the way the Bears O-line and D are playing....the line will be +12 and the Vikings will probably cover the spread.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Vikings win it all, they've been long-suffering...I just think there are a lot of people out there with grosslly distorted views of just how good Favre is right now and the story should be that it's amazing that a 39yo QB is playing *well*....not that he is an MVP candidate.

I just get tired of the hysteria over Favre, you should read some of the old Jets threads from last season. He single handedly destroyed that team down the stretch last year but no one would dare say that about the chosen one.

[TXboomerang]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

He single handedly destroyed that team down the stretch last year but no one would dare say that about the chosen one.

Jets defense gave up 490 yards to Denver in week 13.

Jets defense gave up 385 yards to an anemic 49ers offense and the Jets only gained 59 yards rushing in week 14.

Jets defense kept Bills under 320 yards and Jets offense pounded 165 yards rushing to knock off the Bills in week 15.

Favre threw 2 picks and no td's against the Seahawks in week 16 while the rest of the team played above average. If you want to hang one on Favre, this would be the one.

Jets gave up 117 yards rushing and only put up 80 yards rushing against the Dolphins. Favre threw 3 picks. If you want, you can throw this one on Favre too, and I'm sure you want to.

So out of those 5 games down the stretch, at best you could blame 2 losses on Favre. 1 game they won, the other 2 the entire team performed terribly.

I think you need to rethink the phrase "he single handedly destroyed the team down the stretch".

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by TXboomerang

Jets defense gave up 490 yards to Denver in week 13.

Jets defense gave up 385 yards to an anemic 49ers offense and the Jets only gained 59 yards rushing in week 14.

Jets defense kept Bills under 320 yards and Jets offense pounded 165 yards rushing to knock off the Bills in week 15.

Favre threw 2 picks and no td's against the Seahawks in week 16 while the rest of the team played above average. If you want to hang one on Favre, this would be the one.

Jets gave up 117 yards rushing and only put up 80 yards rushing against the Dolphins. Favre threw 3 picks. If you want, you can throw this one on Favre too, and I'm sure you want to.

So out of those 5 games down the stretch, at best you could blame 2 losses on Favre. 1 game they won, the other 2 the entire team performed terribly.

I think you need to rethink the phrase "he single handedly destroyed the team down the stretch".

The last 5 games of the season they went 1-4
He threw 2 TD's and 9 INT's with a HIGH passer rating of 61 in those games and an average of around 56ish.

You can blame the defense or whatever else you want to handwave about...the fact of the matter is that Favre was HORRIBLE down the stretch and their only win was DESPITE his play.

You know why? He was hurt.

Prior to that he was having a good season.

....but he kept playing hurt...which in my opinion cost them a game or two vs. his backup.

I've made my point. If you want to defend his <61 passer ratings go for it.

[TXboomerang]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

The last 5 games of the season they went 1-4
He threw 2 TD's and 9 INT's with a HIGH passer rating of 61 in those games and an average of around 56ish.

You can blame the defense or whatever else you want to handwave about...the fact of the matter is that Favre was HORRIBLE down the stretch and their only win was DESPITE his play.

You know why? He was hurt.

Prior to that he was having a good season.

....but he kept playing hurt...which in my opinion cost them a game or two vs. his backup.

I've made my point. If you want to defend his <61 passer ratings go for it.

The coaches knew he was hurt and they chose not to take him out, whose fault is that? I am not defending his play because it was bad, no doubt about it. But to say that he single handedly lost those games down the stretch and ignore the defensive collapse and poor running game is nothing short of dishonest. He did not single handedly lose the games, it was a shared effort between his bad throwing arm and an uninspired defense. He had plenty of help in at least 2 of those 4 losses. If you are going to blame the losses solely on him, then you need to credit him with single handedly winning 10 games.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by TXboomerang

The coaches knew he was hurt and they chose not to take him out, whose fault is that? I am not defending his play because it was bad, no doubt about it. But to say that he single handedly lost those games down the stretch and ignore the defensive collapse and poor running game is nothing short of dishonest. He did not single handedly lose the games, it was a shared effort between his bad throwing arm and an uninspired defense. He had plenty of help in at least 2 of those 4 losses. If you are going to blame the losses solely on him, then you need to credit him with single handedly winning 10 games.

They only won 9 games that season...but yeah, I think I did hear John Madden say that Favre was so good he even won a game for Greenbay that he didn't play in so that would make 10.

Also, my quote was "single handedly destroyed", I didn't say he lost all those games. A 80-90 pt rating performance at QB in some of those games would have gotten the Jets another win or two and landed them in the playoffs.

Frankly, we are probably mostly in agreement. The entire point of this thread is that Favre is currently playing *well*. Some people think he is playing MVP calibre and I'm rebutting that.

He played pretty well for the Jets last year (soft early schedule, I thought his pro-bowl inclusion was borderline) and then utterly fell apart but injuries are a given in pro-football and he is 39 so he doesnt get a pass for that.

[TXboomerang]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Frankly, we are probably mostly in agreement. The entire point of this thread is that Favre is currently playing *well*. Some people think he is playing MVP calibre and I'm rebutting that.

I don't think he is a front runner for MVP right now and don't think he should be. I will say that if he plays the second half of the season better than he played the first, he will and should be in the running. He has played above most people's expectations. He is leading the league in TD/INT ration and is only 1 behind Schaub and Brees for most TD's, and trails Brees by .1 for highest qb rating. Nothing to sneeze at, thats for sure. His yardage is a bit low overall, but he also has a lot less passing attempts and a higher completion percantage than most other qb's right now.

That being said, I think Manning is playing better right now and is truly the MVP leader in the qb department. Also, I think Adrian Peterson deserves to be running (pun intended) ahead of Favre in the MVP race as without Peterson, Favre would be worn out already. Another Viking that is ahead of Favre IMO is Jared Allen. Cedric Benson has to be ahead by a bit as well. I would also throw Andre Johnson in there especially if the Texans win their division.

Second half will be interesting. Like I said, if Favre plays even better the second half than he did the first, he will definitely be in the running for the MVP. As for now, I think there are several others ahead of him in line right now.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by TXboomerang

I don't think he is a front runner for MVP right now and don't think he should be. I will say that if he plays the second half of the season better than he played the first, he will and should be in the running. He has played above most people's expectations. He is leading the league in TD/INT ration and is only 1 behind Schaub and Brees for most TD's, and trails Brees by .1 for highest qb rating. Nothing to sneeze at, thats for sure. His yardage is a bit low overall, but he also has a lot less passing attempts and a higher completion percantage than most other qb's right now.

That being said, I think Manning is playing better right now and is truly the MVP leader in the qb department. Also, I think Adrian Peterson deserves to be running (pun intended) ahead of Favre in the MVP race as without Peterson, Favre would be worn out already. Another Viking that is ahead of Favre IMO is Jared Allen. Cedric Benson has to be ahead by a bit as well. I would also throw Andre Johnson in there especially if the Texans win their division.

Second half will be interesting. Like I said, if Favre plays even better the second half than he did the first, he will definitely be in the running for the MVP. As for now, I think there are several others ahead of him in line right now.

I agree with most of that. I'm not sure if their 2nd 1/2 schedule is any tougher than the 1st. Their tougher matchups seem to be home games for them and I know my Bears aren't exactly "tough competition" although tougher than the Lions.

It's just hard to rate Favre fairly given the weak opposition and amount of talent around him. The only MVP scenario I could forsee would be if AP went out hurt and Favre had to pass a lot more and managed to dominate.