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I really wanted to like a Ford (have owned them in the past) but found their product line lacking. The Fusion is a refinement of what seems to be an older generation platform, and the Taurus is an overweight refinement of a Ford Five-Hundred. Both (especially the Fusion) have tacky interior features and finish. I drove both and passed on them without a doubt. After a lot of shopping I bought a Hyundai made in the US that is better than 40% domestic content (better than many US branded cars).
You have to go out to compare and drive them before you recommend them. I find all the magazines and reports just another opinion that is often at odds with my own.
you can be a foreign company, build here to get over with the us audience and make ur presence known but the fact is your money still went to a korean company and the korean economy, in initial quality and reliability Ford beat hyundai. The Taurus is nothing like the 500 they completely redid it as they did the fusion. but to each his own, Im not a huge fan of foreign since that horrible subaru expirience we had in 06 which surprised me because subaru usually has a good rep. maybe it was a lemon or something but idk. Ford and GM products have been good to us.
I'm definitely not a Ford fan (because of past trouble with them).....BUT, a good friend just bought a new Fiesta and I have to admit that it's very nice little car. I drove it and was impressed!
It's a true "world car"....designed in Europe, assembled in Mexico with an engine made in Brazil....and rolling on Chinese tires.
What I don't understand is why doesn't Ford pass on their huge savings in labor? The Mexican auto workers make $2.25 an hour, for crying out loud! They could price the Fiesta at THOUSANDS less than a comparable US built Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc (that pay $25+ an hour)....and selll zillions of Fiestas. Any loss in profit would more than be made up by volume.
Why doesn't Ford use it's tremendous labor advantage to undersell the competition? It just seems like a no-brainer to me.
I'm definitely not a Ford fan (because of past trouble with them).....BUT, a good friend just bought a new Fiesta and I have to admit that it's very nice little car. I drove it and was impressed!
It's a true "world car"....designed in Europe, assembled in Mexico with an engine made in Brazil....and rolling on Chinese tires.
What I don't understand is why doesn't Ford pass on their huge savings in labor? The Mexican auto workers make $2.25 an hour, for crying out loud! They could price the Fiesta at THOUSANDS less than a comparable US built Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc (that pay $25+ an hour)....and selll zillions of Fiestas. Any loss in profit would more than be made up by volume.
Why doesn't Ford use it's tremendous labor advantage to undersell the competition? It just seems like a no-brainer to me.
with the reliability and quality rankings the Ford brand is getting today its not schilling to rental agencies and certain fleets as much, they dont produce as many of a certain model the demand goes up, when the demand goes up the prices go up. before they restructured their contracts they lost 2 grand per vehicle sold now they gain money off each vehicle ive heard i dont know how much tho.
Their real problem is still much of their profits are coming from huge sales in truck and SUVs just like GM and Chrysler.Those are likely to drop like a rock same as last time gasoline got high and this is not the peak demand season.Besides that the future is in markets like china the leading market now for sales and they have not just the japnese to compete against but growing Korean makes and then chinese.Compared to the 70's in their own market and just japanese competition it will be a really tough job.But I thnik ford is i a much better position than GM and Chrysler but not that great really.
Their real problem is still much of their profits are coming from huge sales in truck and SUVs just like GM and Chrysler.Those are likely to drop like a rock same as last time gasoline got high and this is not the peak demand season.Besides that the future is in markets like china the leading market now for sales and they have not just the japnese to compete against but growing Korean makes and then chinese.Compared to the 70's in their own market and just japanese competition it will be a really tough job.But I thnik ford is i a much better position than GM and Chrysler but not that great really.
I see where your coming from however i think Ford will do fine the F-Series trucks are a great seller and will either be made with 5.0 v8 engine or the economy v6 so i dont beleive it will hurt them Ford's fusion and focus sedans also do very well, i hear the taurus does ok and the fiestas doing well but im not sure on that model. GM has basically for chevy the malibu is a great seller, the Silverado, traverse and equinox do good and i think i heard the cruze is doing alright sales wise, GMC has the trucks as you said also the Terrains the good seller, buick doesnt have much really and if you can afford a Cadillac nowadays your most likely not concerned about gas for it. chryslers the one who doesnt have much as of yet.
The price premium is through the roof. Even if they cap it at a $10k premium to a regular Focus (that gets 40 MPG highway), you would be able to drive almost 100k miles in a regular Focus on the cost difference alone. The payback would well exceed the lifetime of the car.
I'm not a dinosaur and I do think electrics are the future, they just don't make great overall economic sense at this point.
As we mentioned in another thread, NO new car makes financial/economic sense at this point, so it's a pointless thing to complain about new EVs using that logic.
As you said, EVs are the future, and in order to GET to the future, we need to take these steps. None of the manufacturers are responsible for the EV infrastructure any more than they were responsible for the gasoline infrastructure or the road infrastructure in teh late 1800s and early 1900 when cars were starting to be made. But by MAKING the cars, the infrastructure was developed. Making the EVs now, and making them mainstream rather than hobbyist cars built in garages, will CAUSE costs to come down and the infrastructure to be seriously built. So making them now is a good thing for a LOT of reasons, even if the cost of the tech is a little bit expensive now.
you can be a foreign company, build here to get over with the us audience and make ur presence known but the fact is your money still went to a korean company and the korean economy,
Not so much. Profits go to shareholders, and shareholders can be from all over teh world. Outside fo that, any money going into the Korean eonomy is from the paychecks of the top executives.. Companies that are building here in teh US are spending most of their money on th ebuilding of the plants and workforce, and taxes, and utility costs, etc right here.
Think about this, when the American companies inteh '90s were on a downward spiral, and the japanese were building more and more plants here in the US, MORE of your car dollars from a Japanese car went int the American economy, while more of your American car dollar went to foreign markets. Where do you think the billions Ford spent on Jaguar, Aston, Volvo, and Land Rover came from AND WENT? Not to the US economy. Same for GM buying into Saab, Lotus, Daewoo, Subaru, Alfa, etc. And let's not even get into Chrysler who had surplusses of cash (which were not being spent in teh US economy, that's why they were surplusses) and who had those surplusses and any profits sucked off by Daimler and NOT reinvested here in the US at all.
you can be a foreign company, build here to get over with the us audience and make ur presence known but the fact is your money still went to a korean company and the korean economy, in initial quality and reliability Ford beat hyundai. The Taurus is nothing like the 500 they completely redid it as they did the fusion. but to each his own, Im not a huge fan of foreign since that horrible subaru expirience we had in 06 which surprised me because subaru usually has a good rep. maybe it was a lemon or something but idk. Ford and GM products have been good to us.
Like Merc said, you can't really judge the impact that your dollars had on the U.S. economy by looking at where the final dollar ended up (which in reality goes to shareholders all over the world). The fact is a foreign brand car built in the U.S. often puts more money into the local and U.S. economy than it does into the foreign one where the parent company happens to be based. I'm all for supporting the American brands when they build good product (which they are doing now), but don't blindly base your purchase on whether or not the company is based in Michigan. Chances are your neighbors Camry put more money into the U.S. then your other neighbors Fusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodfella24
with the reliability and quality rankings the Ford brand is getting today its not schilling to rental agencies and certain fleets as much, they dont produce as many of a certain model the demand goes up, when the demand goes up the prices go up. before they restructured their contracts they lost 2 grand per vehicle sold now they gain money off each vehicle ive heard i dont know how much tho.
A large chunk of Ford's business is in the fleet market, particularly the light and medium duty truck business. Ford is also selling as many cars to rental fleets. Fully 34.5% of Fords sales last year were to fleets, with roughly half of that going to rental agencies. They are selling to fleets at the same rates they always were. GM is as well, but only around 31% went to fleets. Chrysler headed the list at 39% followed by Hyundai at 16%, Toyota at 9% and Honda at 2%. So, Ford is still heavily into the fleet and rental market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodfella24
I see where your coming from however i think Ford will do fine the F-Series trucks are a great seller and will either be made with 5.0 v8 engine or the economy v6 so i dont beleive it will hurt them Ford's fusion and focus sedans also do very well, i hear the taurus does ok and the fiestas doing well but im not sure on that model. GM has basically for chevy the malibu is a great seller, the Silverado, traverse and equinox do good and i think i heard the cruze is doing alright sales wise, GMC has the trucks as you said also the Terrains the good seller, buick doesnt have much really and if you can afford a Cadillac nowadays your most likely not concerned about gas for it. chryslers the one who doesnt have much as of yet.
Ford is lagging other makes in selling vehicles in China and India which are the worlds largest emergent car markets. The Chinese business in particular is very critical to all car makers. Ford's market share in China is only around 2%, compared to almost 14% for GM. Ford's greatest issue remains it's debt burden, they simply can't go after everything at once.
Also, contrary to what you said, Buick is rapidly becoming an extremely strong and healthy brand for GM on the backs of very succesful vehicles like the Regal, LaCrosse and Enclave.
I'm definitely not a Ford fan (because of past trouble with them).....BUT, a good friend just bought a new Fiesta and I have to admit that it's very nice little car. I drove it and was impressed!
It's a true "world car"....designed in Europe, assembled in Mexico with an engine made in Brazil....and rolling on Chinese tires.
What I don't understand is why doesn't Ford pass on their huge savings in labor? The Mexican auto workers make $2.25 an hour, for crying out loud! They could price the Fiesta at THOUSANDS less than a comparable US built Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc (that pay $25+ an hour)....and selll zillions of Fiestas. Any loss in profit would more than be made up by volume.
Why doesn't Ford use it's tremendous labor advantage to undersell the competition? It just seems like a no-brainer to me.
Nobody ever got rich selling their products cheap. The Idea is to build them cheap and then sell them for as much as the market will bare.
Those Nike sneakers that sell for over $100 probably cost less than $10 dollars to produce but the American owners would not be millionaires selling those shoes for $25.
If our govt. slapped some healthy tariffs on imported foreign goods and it was not so attractive to import perhaps manufacturers would start producing goods here like they used to do on the 50's and 60's when the USA had the most powerful economy and nobody ever used the term "It's a Global Economy".
Like Merc said, you can't really judge the impact that your dollars had on the U.S. economy by looking at where the final dollar ended up (which in reality goes to shareholders all over the world). The fact is a foreign brand car built in the U.S. often puts more money into the local and U.S. economy than it does into the foreign one where the parent company happens to be based. I'm all for supporting the American brands when they build good product (which they are doing now), but don't blindly base your purchase on whether or not the company is based in Michigan. Chances are your neighbors Camry put more money into the U.S. then your other neighbors Fusion.
A large chunk of Ford's business is in the fleet market, particularly the light and medium duty truck business. Ford is also selling as many cars to rental fleets. Fully 34.5% of Fords sales last year were to fleets, with roughly half of that going to rental agencies. They are selling to fleets at the same rates they always were. GM is as well, but only around 31% went to fleets. Chrysler headed the list at 39% followed by Hyundai at 16%, Toyota at 9% and Honda at 2%. So, Ford is still heavily into the fleet and rental market.
Ford is lagging other makes in selling vehicles in China and India which are the worlds largest emergent car markets. The Chinese business in particular is very critical to all car makers. Ford's market share in China is only around 2%, compared to almost 14% for GM. Ford's greatest issue remains it's debt burden, they simply can't go after everything at once.
Also, contrary to what you said, Buick is rapidly becoming an extremely strong and healthy brand for GM on the backs of very succesful vehicles like the Regal, LaCrosse and Enclave.
Buick maybe becoming a strong brand i didnt hear the lacrosse was selling much, I knew the Enclave was, i hadnt seen sales specs for the new regal yet so i didnt mention it, Im proud of GM theyve back back I think the last time I checked alittle over half the bailout money and its a smart move to Make Chevy the strongest brand they have while paying it back because Chevy is their cash cow. As For Ford theyre doing well here I dont beleive theyre in debt to the government and when I did read on it, it didnt say they took the line of credit, they said it was available to them. I knew GM's Buick brand was I think still is one of if not the biggest seller in China and the south pacific.
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