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Perhaps I will do that. There was no fuel odour problem before I entrusted the motor to this garage. If I had been a mechanic, I would have been able to think of at least a handful of questions to ask a customer I am sure, and I definitely would have belled the customer if I thought the tank was empty. I would not have bothered to do anything to the motor if I could not test drive it. All they had to do was pick up the phone and give me a bell.
This despite your comment about being done with the topic?
No offence intended, Parnassia, but every time you respond to a post I have made, it seems to be to criticise only, so I am not going to respond to you anymore. If criticising makes your motor purr, then find another poster to criticise. I am not interested in going into minute detail with you over things that do not matter and frankly you seem to do for not other reason than to criticise. No more interaction with you, so no need to ask me anymore questions or offer any more opinions to me.
The devil tends to live in these details you seem so reluctant to mention. When you post to a subject matter specific forum hoping for input from others, you're bound to be questioned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my reply wasn't the only one suggesting that part of the trouble you may have brought on yourself. I replied to the thread because I've had to deal with the aftermath of contaminated fuel (not mine). It caused a cascade of other problems, cost me a tow and lots of shop service time. Questioning can leave a taste of criticism in your mouth if you are in the midst of second guessing and regretting decisions you yourself made. Speaking of being critical, you certainly aren't shy about that and tend to be quick to blame. You wanted to lay all this at the shop's feet. Did they deserve that? Probably not. In a way you unintentionally did set the situation up to fail. No mechanic is a magician or a mind reader. They can't do the best job without information. Especially about the true condition of some aging vehicle they've never serviced or seen before. Its history matters. Most people don't drive around with a tank full of unusable gas. They can't be expected to know it's ready and waiting to gunk up the engine. I'm sure the truck is fixable but the money you tried to save by neglecting a known problem for years probably just reared up and bit you in the behind.
Last edited by Parnassia; 12-11-2022 at 03:00 PM..
Hello you knowledgeable motor vehicle people! This is a bit of a long story, but please bear with me. The end question is whether or not my motor is ruined and what to do next if something can be done. This involves two petrol tanks, one with very old very bad petrol. Here goes...
I have a Ford F150 XLT Lariat. I bought it brand new in 1989. I cannot afford to replace it, so I have done my best to keep it well maintained and running. I needed to get it inspected soon, so in anticipation of that last month I put in a bottle of Lucas deep clean fuel system cleaner into a full tank of petrol which I planned to run through to clean out the system and then refill my tank before I brought it in for inspection.
Shortly after adding this stuff to the tank, my motor seemed to be "out of breath" at stop signs and stop lights. It was as though it was gasping and it was lunging whilst waiting a stop light or a stop sign. Then, every so often, it simply died whilst driving it, but it started right up again and was fine.
Then, last Tuesday night, it kept dying over and over again. I could not keep it started.
Wednesday morning, it started just fine, and I drove it to the market and back without incident, but I was afraid it was going to die and leave me stranded. Someone from Church recommended a garage about 15 minutes drive from my home. I had previously paid $200 for Firestone to look at it. They said they could not be sure what was wrong with it, but they suggested cleaning the fuel system and adjusting the throttle thingy. This is what I told the man at the garage I took it to this past Wednesday.
I described the problem and told them what Firestone suggested and left it with them to diagnose it. They did not ask me any questions. Upon looking at it, they first wrongly presumed that there was no petrol in my front tank because the gauge said empty. The tank was FULL. The gauge is broken. The cap is locking, so they could not open it.
Next, they went to the rear tank. The rear tank has not been used in at least eight years because the fuel pump developed problems all those years ago, and I did not get it repaired---too expensive. Instead, I relied on my front tank which I have used exclusively ever since. The rear tank at that time had a full tank of petrol which I later was told was no good. It goes bad after so many months. The bad petrol has just sat in the tank all these years. Firestone said they could not drain it. So, what do you think this garage did next?
Stop.
I only needed the last sentence or two to see the problem. Did hundreds of these.
There was a recall or rather many on the fuel system., the dual tank fuel system was SUPPOSED to use a check valve in the FDM (fuel delivery module) to prevent the powered tank from filling the non-powered tank. It didnt work so ford did a recall where one way check valves were inserted into the fuel line on the FDM plate on the tank.
Since yours is an 89 and ford built stuff in different places - lets find whatcha got. There were 2 versions - low pressure pumps in the tank with a booster pump on the frame under the drivers seat and a fuel selector shuttle OR the 2 high pressure fuel pumps in the tanks. they BOTH used the same wiring in the dash and on the frame.
I the truck is not a salty dog, lets keep it alive...#1 what are the tanks like? if any rust, spectra tanks from canada via rock auto, all rear tanks are 19+ gallons, the saddle tank is 17 or 19 depending on long wheel base or short. (xcab short bed is still long wheel base)
new straps are to be had from same maker.
the FDMs rarely go bad, the pumps do and the pumps ARE replaceable by splicing in a new one and the pickup sock is replaceable
while we are at it, check for fuel pressure at the schrader on the rail. I wanna see 38psi plus. the FPR (fuel pressure regulator) is vacuum powered, on the fuel rail and replaceable.
The new tanks will come with new locking rings and gasket..
The connectors for the tank are brittle and can be had from doorman and spliced in. if you choose to bust off that they clip to, then you need new FDMs.
The one way valves that clip on are hard to find. these : 1L34-9J274-BA
are getting hard and expensive - $99 on the bay and you need two of them. you can splice in hose with FI clamps BUT, has to be EFI hose. In order to use an inline 1 way check from dorman.
now that we have the parts to get you running, drain the tanks you got...if the garage cannot drain gas, then they aint a garage.
you need to get high pressure gas at the rail then thats solved. might not be the worst idea to swap out the fuel pump relay in case its got a patina on the contacts.
you dont say what motor - does not matter in 89 in a 150 all were bank fired speed density systems. they dont go bad very often and they dont self heal - when they go bad they stay bad.
what else could it be (coincidentally that fails when you add fuel stuff) well the TFI module in those years (gray) were notoriously bad - they can partially fail hot, runing again on cooler days or after cool down. you can get one again and take yer chances, or look up the 'divorced TFI' fix on the ford truck enthusiast site (you need some tech savy AND about 4ft of shielded wire for the ignition pulse)
and you could have a failure in the SD sensors - it needs the holy trinity of throttle position, MAP/BARO and and act. test the TPS for any glitches
dig in an let me know
Last edited by RetireinPA; 12-11-2022 at 08:26 PM..
Is there a Ford dealership with a service center near you?
problem is, most of the techs in any dealership were not born when this truck was. they no longer teach EECIV and windsor engines in 'ford school'. he is gonna hafta find an old timer.
Like said, you're gonna have to find someone that knows EEC-IV on these old Fords. The good thing here however is that those old F150's run an EEC setup similar to speed density 5.0 Mustangs (although batch fire) so there are some areas that cross over. SO with that, there is hope you can find someone.
Short of that, here's where i would start. Pretty good cheap EEC-IV tool for pulling codes. The early EEC differs from later OBD2 in that it won't show a check engine light for every code, so you often need to pull the codes and see what's stored and go from there. Not sure when Ford put a functional check engine light in the F150, but they didn't add it to the Mustang until 1989 when they went mass air.
If you go to your local Autozone to pull codes, they are going to look at you cross-eyed wondering where to plug the OBD2 scanner into.
One other thing that is popping up for these old EEC4 vehicles is the capacitors used in the ECU's are failing. They are leaking and corroding which causes the "legs" on the capacitor to separate. When this happens, the vehicle runs poorly and it's quite commonly fuel pump related. It either runs intermittently, or it constantly runs when you turn the key to on, rather than a 2 second prime. It's becoming more and more of an issue. I currently have two ECU's on my bench i'm repairing for this. I'm absolutely not proclaiming this is your issue, but something to keep in the back of your mind. TFI's and PIP's are also common ignition related failures, but you (or someone that knows these vehicles) need to start at the beginning with an overall inspection (is the fuel really bad? pull the codes? etc) and go from there. It could be a coincidence that the issues started when you added the fuel additives, or not.
Also that site is probably a better resource than a general automotive forum like here. Its just a numbers thing really. I would bet a lot more folks who know those trucks well are posting there vs here. I am actually not an F150 guy, i am a Foxbody Mustang guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireinPA
they no longer teach EECIV and windsor engines in 'ford school'. he is gonna hafta find an old timer.
I'm technically a millennial and know it rather well...at least on the foxbody Mustang. But you are right. Take it to a Ford dealer and they are going to scratch their heads.
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The devil tends to live in these details you seem so reluctant to mention. When you post to a subject matter specific forum hoping for input from others, you're bound to be questioned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my reply wasn't the only one suggesting that part of the trouble you may have brought on yourself. I replied to the thread because I've had to deal with the aftermath of contaminated fuel (not mine). It caused a cascade of other problems, cost me a tow and lots of shop service time. Questioning can leave a taste of criticism in your mouth if you are in the midst of second guessing and regretting decisions you yourself made. Speaking of being critical, you certainly aren't shy about that and tend to be quick to blame. You wanted to lay all this at the shop's feet. Did they deserve that? Probably not. In a way you unintentionally did set the situation up to fail. No mechanic is a magician or a mind reader. They can't do the best job without information. Especially about the true condition of some aging vehicle they've never serviced or seen before. Its history matters. Most people don't drive around with a tank full of unusable gas. They can't be expected to know it's ready and waiting to gunk up the engine. I'm sure the truck is fixable but the money you tried to save by neglecting a known problem for years probably just reared up and bit you in the behind.
