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I meant the ones he was looking at. This way we could maybe help him pick one over the other.
thats why I posted those other links from various years... he can look over information from other owners - what they have to say about their vehicle experience, etc... There's several links to several different years. 1998 changed body styles but still used the same frame config - wasn't until 2003 until the actual "next gen" panther was brought to market. The 98-02 is actually a carryover of the 1990 model - just a reskin....
2003-2010 rides on the hydroformed front frame rails with rack and pinion steering. Outside the interior, a good driver cannot tell the difference in handling of a 1998-02 model and the 91-97 model.. The 1990 will perform different as it uses the 302 V8 as opposed to the 281 SOHC engine....
Thanks for those links and info. Well the lady that bought my Lexus came today, so thats gone, but I was pressed for time to get my other car serviced so I will have something to drive, so I didnt make it to look at the fairly local (its about 35 miles away) 1993. I emailed that guy and apparently he likes to relist when I cant come, but I work 5 days a week and its hard to get down there at the drop of a pin.
Just for that reason I would just as soon think about the blue 1995, even if it will cost me more with shipping, but want to think about the 1993 as well, so my goal is to go look at it on Sunday if he still has it. If its gone or I dont like it, I will try to go for the 1995 and if its gone or I cant find reasonable shipping, I will look elsewhere. I have even been considering a 1991 Caprice Classic sedan.
the 91-96 Caprice and Roadmaster are good cars (also may consider a Fleetwood)... There was a 95 or 96 fleetwood in Louisville a guy had for what seemed forever and always.... I'll look online here and see if there's anything listed within a few hours of your area.... You're listed NE Tenn, so there may be some in the London, KY area which isn't that far from you.... I'll PM you if I can locate some - also Lexington isn't that far either.... (and you can do an autotrader look for this area of KY where there are usually several good used cars - zip codes where I've found some decent bargains: 42701 (elizabethtown, ky), 42718 - 42728 (campbellsville/columbia, ky area), 42501 (somerset, ky), 40741 (london, ky), 40501 (lexington, ky), 40422 (danville, ky), 42104 (bowling green, ky), and louisville (40202)....
the 91-96 Caprice and Roadmaster are good cars (also may consider a Fleetwood)... There was a 95 or 96 fleetwood in Louisville a guy had for what seemed forever and always.... I'll look online here and see if there's anything listed within a few hours of your area.... You're listed NE Tenn, so there may be some in the London, KY area which isn't that far from you.... I'll PM you if I can locate some - also Lexington isn't that far either.... (and you can do an autotrader look for this area of KY where there are usually several good used cars - zip codes where I've found some decent bargains: 42701 (elizabethtown, ky), 42718 - 42728 (campbellsville/columbia, ky area), 42501 (somerset, ky), 40741 (london, ky), 40501 (lexington, ky), 40422 (danville, ky), 42104 (bowling green, ky), and louisville (40202)....
I agree. The GM B-Body platform is quite incredible. IMO they are a slight step up from the Ford Panther Platform. While both platforms are incredibly robust, the B-Body is a heavier-duty, better handling, more efficient and more utilitarian vehicle. Available drive trains on the B-Bodies are significantly more desirable and 94-96 models and are an excellent palette for a street performance vehicle.
Cost to maintain either platform is about the same and extremely low. They both ride great and actually avoid the "gas guzzling" image. Also, their dominating presence in the history of livery business is testament to how much urban abuse they are capable of.
IMO, a short list of what the B-Body has over the Panther:
Larger/Roomier
More desirable drivetrains also capable of high(er) performance.
I agree. The GM B-Body platform is quite incredible. IMO they are a slight step up from the Ford Panther Platform. While both platforms are incredibly robust, the B-Body is a heavier-duty, better handling, more efficient and more utilitarian vehicle. Available drive trains on the B-Bodies are significantly more desirable and 94-96 models and are an excellent palette for a street performance vehicle.
Cost to maintain either platform is about the same and extremely low. They both ride great and actually avoid the "gas guzzling" image. Also, their dominating presence in the history of livery business is testament to how much urban abuse they are capable of.
IMO, a short list of what the B-Body has over the Panther:
Larger/Roomier
More desirable drivetrains also capable of high(er) performance.
Greater available aftermarket of quality parts.
Equal if not slightly better fuel efficiency.
Higher towing capacities.
Slightly superior suspension.
The B-body is a more dated chassis than the Panther... it actually dates to 1970 (whereas most people actually think it dates to '76 as a 1977 chassis)... The B (also known as the RWD C and D) had no updates from 1977-1996. The updated version in 1977 was only a reduced wheelbase from the 1971 intro in august, 1970...
The B (C/D) RWD engines in the 1991 Caprice was only the 305 (5.0L) Chevrolet engine... The LT1 350 only produced a slight increase in hp ratings over the 305 and the previous 350 Chevy block in the Buick and Cadillac in 92-93. The biggest drawback with any GM car produced after 1977 was the tranmission, from the jetaway (known to most consumers as the THM200 later in the 80s as the 4L60 and 4L65 series. Early failure on these tranmissions caused GM millions of dollars including lawsuits beginning in 1978 due to the lightweight of these transmissions and the heavy vehicle they were pulling - from the basic Chevrolet Caprice/Impala with the V6 to the Cadillac deVille/Fleetwood with the 425 V8...
GM lost sales in 1991 with the redesign of the B-body when they attempted at a copy of Ford's hot selling Taurus in a "bubble" design on a full size scale - copying more the "Sable" look with the skirted rear... Look at the 1993-1996 Caprice and notice the huge gap in the rear fender when GM designers attempted to open the rear fender and there offset from the tire to the rear of the wheel opening - and the front of the tire still slightly covered by the fender...
Consumers were still appauled at how designers at GM could not completely redesign a rear quarter panel on these vehicles... But GM has a program - 3-5 years before they are able to completely redesign a vehicle - 60s it was 3 year plan but as finances became incrasingly less, the time frame was moved farther out from 3 to a 5 year span....
The B-body is a more dated chassis than the Panther... it actually dates to 1970 (whereas most people actually think it dates to '76 as a 1977 chassis)... The B (also known as the RWD C and D) had no updates from 1977-1996. The updated version in 1977 was only a reduced wheelbase from the 1971 intro in august, 1970...
Perfect testament to how the B-Body was deigned correctly the first time. Just because a design is old hardly means that it is inferior. As a result of decades of use, replacement parts are dirt cheap and the available aftermarket is incredibly huge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lincsta
The B (C/D) RWD engines in the 1991 Caprice was only the 305 (5.0L) Chevrolet engine... The LT1 350 only produced a slight increase in hp ratings over the 305 and the previous 350 Chevy block in the Buick and Cadillac in 92-93.
Civilian Caprices up to '93 came stock with a 1st generation SBC 305cid (L03), also available to the Caprice was the same 1st gen SBC 350 (L05). Fleetwoods and Roadmasters came stock with the L05 up to '93.
'94-'96 they went to the 2nd gen. SBC's. 265cid L99 blocks were stock on Civilian Caprices with the optional 350cid LT1. Again, the bigger LT1 block was standard on Fleetwoods and Roadmasters.
The 305 L03 pumped out 170hp (250 ftlb) whereas the 350 LT1 pumped out 260hp (330 ftlb). I don't see how you consider that "slight".
Quote:
Originally Posted by lincsta
The biggest drawback with any GM car produced after 1977 was the tranmission, from the jetaway (known to most consumers as the THM200 later in the 80s as the 4L60 and 4L65 series. Early failure on these tranmissions caused GM millions of dollars including lawsuits beginning in 1978 due to the lightweight of these transmissions and the heavy vehicle they were pulling - from the basic Chevrolet Caprice/Impala with the V6 to the Cadillac deVille/Fleetwood with the 425 V8...
Well your talking about a 1978 3spd transmission. The model years we are discussing are where the 700R4s and 4L60(e)'s are used. These are very robust transmissions and fairly irrelevant to the THM200's you speak of.
Last edited by Lux Hauler; 01-20-2010 at 12:14 PM..
Luxhauler, GM didn't offer a 4-speed tranny in 1978 they used the slim/jim (aka jetaway, aka THM200) in their products... I should know, I won 2 lawsuits against GM over having the THM200 in 2 GM cars - don't argue with someone who knows what they're talking about.... And I had several GM cars (including Caprices, Roadmasters, Olds 88s, Olds 98s, and Cadillacs).... Wanna argue, go ahead, I'll beat the hell out of any arguement you got - I been there, done that dude....
Luxhauler, GM didn't offer a 4-speed tranny in 1978 they used the slim/jim (aka jetaway, aka THM200) in their products... I should know, I won 2 lawsuits against GM over having the THM200 in 2 GM cars - don't argue with someone who knows what they're talking about.... And I had several GM cars (including Caprices, Roadmasters, Olds 88s, Olds 98s, and Cadillacs).... Wanna argue, go ahead, I'll beat the hell out of any arguement you got - I been there, done that dude....
Sorry for the typo, I have corrected it as a 3spd. Your getting pretty undone over nothing. However I will argue anything that I personally believe skews the truth. Good to know you won your lawsuits, however talking about the "jetaways" is irrelevant discussion, your about a decade off.
No one is denying the THM200's were junk but they were replaced with far more durable 4spd 700R4's that eventually evolved into the bullet proof 4l60(e)'s used in the 90's. Comparing apples to oranges gets no where. Let's try and keep this discussion concerning late 80's to mid 90's.... the same range the OP is looking.
Sorry for the typo, I have corrected it as a 3spd. Your getting pretty undone over nothing. However I will argue anything that I personally believe skews the truth. Good to know you won your lawsuits, however talking about the "jetaways" is irrelevant discussion, your about a decade off.
No one is denying the THM200's were junk but they were replaced with far more durable 4spd 700R4's that eventually evolved into the bullet proof 4l60(e)'s used in the 90's. Comparing apples to oranges gets no where. Let's try and keep this discussion concerning late 80's to mid 90's.... the same range the OP is looking.
GM trannies including the 700r4s were just as pathetic as any tranny GM has built since the mid-70s.. GM hasn't built a good transmission since they discontinued the turbo-hydromatic... ALL general motors cars have transmission issues - and I'm including every single one of them - from Chevrolet to Cadillac to Holden to Daewoo.... If you're a GM fanboy get over it, because I'm not backing down...
You might have a better go with a Roadmaster or Fleetwood if you can find a good deal as those will probably have less mileage than a Caprice.
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