Adjusting to Fort Collins,Co from Phx. Az. (Denver, Aurora: crime rates, good schools)

[hello-world]

i got this from someone's post on another city-opinion forum. it's from a "native" of the area:

"Okay, here's my 7 cents worth...I'm a Colorado Native...lived in the Denver/Boulder areas for the first 26 years of my life, more or less. I've lived in other parts of the world, and I've visited many cities in the U.S. But i think it's only fair for me to compare to the two other cities i've lived in the U.S. - Albuquerque and Salt Lake City and also just the general feeling I've had about this city and Colorado in general since I got out and saw/experienced a lot more of the world. In short, Denver's not my kind of town - at all. It feels like it's full of a lot of plastic, vanilla, no personality people, just the city itself. Honestly i don't think denver has really ever had much personality beyond cowtown; but nowadays, it isn't even that really...though some of that lingers...just check out the radio. Salt Lake City compared to Denver, (and i'm talking metro here more or less of both) is WAY more diverse, especially in that it's a lot more integrated. Albuquerque, on that front, takes the cake from both of them. I just find Denver to be ultra blah...i think financially, you can do pretty well and join the homogenous middle-class ranks without too much struggle...but it's way segregated, and it's hard to find someone who'll engage in any kind of intelligent conversation, however very easy to find someone who'll discuss the latest in sports be it the Broncos, Rockies, Avalanche, etc. I'm only back here temporarily before heading to the NYC area where I feel much more at home. I don't think Denverites are all that friendly, and when they are, it feels really fake. Wash Park is nice but i get disconcerted by how it's filled with look-alikes...compared to Liberty Park in SLC which is actually an even nicer park but you'll find all kinds enjoying the park from a muslim woman jogging in hijab and skirt, to thuggish cholos with their families, to young college kids playing ultimate frisbee, to young goths, etc...all kinds of ethnicities, social classes, interests, all sharing and enjoying the park. That's my kind of place. I think that the majority of Colorado is filled with conservative white rednecks...tanned, cute, fit ken and barbie doll-like rednecks at heart. Small-minded, not well-read, rather living in their perfect little suburban bubble worlds...and the liberals here? They all pretty much consist of equally small-minded, middle to upper-middle class potheads, who hang around with a look-alike crowd as well. Oh well, what can I say, this just isn't my kind of place."

[formercalifornian]

Hmmmm...this is an interesting thread!

I have had a similar experience with coldness in my neighborhood and at my children's elementary school where I volunteer, but I haven't had that experience at retail establishments. In fact, the cashier at a taqueria we frequent almost always has our order tabulated before we even get to the counter (we're very consistent), and never fails to greet us by name and with a smile to boot. We usually go after visiting the library, and if it's not busy, he'll sit and chat with us about what we're reading. I suspect our experience is part of the reason we're such loyal customers.

Now, our neighborhood is another matter entirely. Very cold people! They're suspicious of outsiders despite the fact that many relocated from other states, and quick to confront if you violate an unspoken rule. Conformity is expected. Fortunately, the kids are oblivious and play together very well. I am so glad we rent. We've been looking around at properties to purchase, but I still haven't found a friendly neighborhood environment like where I grew up in the midwest and want for my children, too.

...and the liberals here? They all pretty much consist of equally small-minded, middle to upper-middle class potheads, who hang around with a look-alike crowd as well.

It's scary to actually admit this and even harder to explain, but I've felt like a piece of me died when I moved here from the coast. Douglas County is like Garrison Keillor's Lake Woebegon.

[Katiana]

Goodness! That is quite a screed! It does not really describe the Denver I know, not entirely anyway. I'm not sure what that poster would like to discuss with a total stranger, the meaning of life, perhaps? One time, my then boyfriend, now husband, was going on an interview to Pittsburgh. I told him, if you want to start a conversation, just say "How 'bout those (Pirates, Steelers, Penguins, etc)"? He said "It's the same in Omaha (his hometown). Just say 'how 'bout those Huskers' "? and people will talk to you.

I have been on the Salt Lake forum, I have been to Salt Lake, and I know people from Salt Lake, and it doesn't sound that idyllic to me.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Goodness! That is quite a screed! It does not really describe the Denver I know, not entirely anyway. I'm not sure what that poster would like to discuss with a total stranger, the meaning of life, perhaps? One time, my then boyfriend, now husband, was going on an interview to Pittsburgh. I told him, if you want to start a conversation, just say "How 'bout those (Pirates, Steelers, Penguins, etc)"? He said "It's the same in Omaha (his hometown). Just say 'how 'bout those Huskers' "? and people will talk to you.

I have been on the Salt Lake forum, I have been to Salt Lake, and I know people from Salt Lake, and it doesn't sound that idyllic to me.

i wonder if that person i'd quoted was referring to something ESPECIALLY surface/stand-offish and homogenized/segregated in this region relative to other "not necessarily idyllic yet different in some of these ways" places?

and BTW - haven't you yourself posted about how unfriendly it can feel coming from, e.g., the northeast to CO and how you felt that when you moved here umpteen years ago? just curious...

[Katiana]

Yes, I have posted that. But I think this person went a little overboard:

Denver's not my kind of town - at all. It feels like it's full of a lot of plastic, vanilla, no personality people, just the city itself.

Salt Lake City compared to Denver, (and i'm talking metro here more or less of both) is WAY more diverse,

This is, in fact, untrue.

Races in Salt Lake City:

White Non-Hispanic (70.6%)
Hispanic (18.8%)
Other race (8.5%)
Two or more races (3.5%)
American Indian (1.9%)
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (1.9%)
Black (1.9%)
Vietnamese (0.9%)
Chinese (0.9%)
Japanese (0.5%)

Here are some stats from Bountiful, the suburb where my back-yard neighbor grew up:
Races in Bountiful:

White Non-Hispanic (94.1%)
Hispanic (2.9%)
Two or more races (1.3%)
Other race (1.1%)

Races in Denver:

White Non-Hispanic (51.9%)
Hispanic (31.7%)
Other race (15.6%)
Black (11.1%)
Two or more races (3.7%)
American Indian (2.2%)
Vietnamese (0.8%)

Here is Louisville:
Races in Louisville:

White Non-Hispanic (88.6%)
Hispanic (5.0%)
Two or more races (1.9%)
Other race (1.8%)
Chinese (1.4%)
American Indian (1.1%)
Black (0.9%) Asian Indian (0.5%)


It was just recently announced that Denver is now a majority-minority city (less than 50% while). Salt Lake City is smaller, perhaps that's the difference in appearance.

I just find Denver to be ultra blah...i think financially, you can do pretty well and join the homogenous middle-class ranks without too much struggle...but it's way segregated, and it's hard to find someone who'll engage in any kind of intelligent conversation, however very easy to find someone who'll discuss the latest in sports be it the Broncos, Rockies, Avalanche, etc.

I tried to point out that this is the case in many cities (well, two anyway).

I think that the majority of Colorado is filled with conservative white rednecks...tanned, cute, fit ken and barbie doll-like rednecks at heart. Small-minded, not well-read, rather living in their perfect little suburban bubble worlds...and the liberals here? They all pretty much consist of equally small-minded, middle to upper-middle class potheads, who hang around with a look-alike crowd as well. Oh well, what can I say, this just isn't my kind of place."

This sounds a bit arrogant. Not well-read? The liberal stuff sounds like the stereotypical anti-Boulder talk.

Just my two c worth.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Yes, I have posted that. But I think this person went a little overboard:





This is, in fact, untrue.

Races in Salt Lake City:

White Non-Hispanic (70.6%)
Hispanic (18.8%)
Other race (8.5%)
Two or more races (3.5%)
American Indian (1.9%)
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (1.9%)
Black (1.9%)
Vietnamese (0.9%)
Chinese (0.9%)
Japanese (0.5%)

Here are some stats from Bountiful, the suburb where my back-yard neighbor grew up:
Races in Bountiful:

White Non-Hispanic (94.1%)
Hispanic (2.9%)
Two or more races (1.3%)
Other race (1.1%)

Races in Denver:

White Non-Hispanic (51.9%)
Hispanic (31.7%)
Other race (15.6%)
Black (11.1%)
Two or more races (3.7%)
American Indian (2.2%)
Vietnamese (0.8%)

Here is Louisville:
Races in Louisville:

White Non-Hispanic (88.6%)
Hispanic (5.0%)
Two or more races (1.9%)
Other race (1.8%)
Chinese (1.4%)
American Indian (1.1%)
Black (0.9%) Asian Indian (0.5%)


It was just recently announced that Denver is now a majority-minority city (less than 50% while). Salt Lake City is smaller, perhaps that's the difference in appearance.



I tried to point out that this is the case in many cities (well, two anyway).



This sounds a bit arrogant. Not well-read? The liberal stuff sounds like the stereotypical anti-Boulder talk.

Just my two c worth.

for what it's worth, i think that that poster was talking segregation in the metro area and colorado at large. i haven't spent a lot of time in salt lake, personally, and i admit i was a little surprised they were using salt lake as the counterpoint. nevertheless, denver may be home to many "minorities" (at least latinos), but i have to agree with the poster insofar as that it seems to me the metro area does seem especially segregated and vanilla relative to many (most) cities it's size and stature. and i'm not the only one - i see this echoed over and over again in these threads. i think that the proportion of suburb to city population (and the fact that much of the city's day time population goes home to the often rather homogenized suburbs at night), commercialization, and "americana" of it might have a bit to do with that.

as for any "stereotypical talk", i agree that can take away from things in a politically incorrect kind of way. at the same time, some of that talk concerning boulder, as scathing as it might sound, can contain plenty of "truths", can't it?

[Katiana]

There is a thread going on the Pittsburgh forum right now about "diversity" or lack thereof, in the burbs. Some of the high schools there are 98+ white. Monarch High, in Louisville, is 87% white, 5% hispanic and apparently 8% "other". Broomfield High is 84% white. These are schools that are fairly far from Denver. So I would say Denver is not all *that* segregated.

And yes, in private conversation, I have said some of those things about Boulder. But that is true of the "liberals" in Champaign, IL, too, of which I knew many when I lived there. Maybe, as that poster said, "it just isn't his type of place".

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

There is a thread going on the Pittsburgh forum right now about "diversity" or lack thereof, in the burbs. Some of the high schools there are 98+ white. Monarch High, in Louisville, is 87% white, 5% hispanic and apparently 8% "other". Broomfield High is 84% white. These are schools that are fairly far from Denver. So I would say Denver is not all *that* segregated.

And yes, in private conversation, I have said some of those things about Boulder. But that is true of the "liberals" in Champaign, IL, too, of which I knew many when I lived there. Maybe, as that poster said, "it just isn't his type of place".

"in the burbs" good point.

as for denver, look at 30 metros' stats - metros of similar size, stature, and popularity/appeal (as measured by, say, inmigration growth rate). i don't doubt there will be a couple suburbs of those metros in there that will make denver look like heaven on earth for those seeking diversity and worldiness, for example. i would venture that the trend among most will indicate that, indeed, denver metro - as a whole (not just a suburb here and there) - is rather segregated, rather homogenized, and rather "new suburbia". my suspicion is that is part of why there can be a what might even be a concensus on these threads concerning these facets.

don't get me wrong, i thing denver metro has some wonderful attributes...just that some of this seems worth keeping in mind.

[Katiana]

True. I was just using examples from my own experience. I do think the southern suburbs, esp. Douglas Co. are kind of "white bread".

[formercalifornian]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

True. I was just using examples from my own experience. I do think the southern suburbs, esp. Douglas Co. are kind of "white bread".

As I wrote earlier, it's very Lake Woebegon.