Hallandale wants to buy foreclosed homes (credit, loans, foreclosures)

[Wild Style]

Seems city of Hallandale wants to buy foreclosed homes and make them into affordable housing. Sounds like a excellent plan, hope more cities do this

link

[eufo]

Personally I think its a terrible idea. Poor people should be helped in renting homes (if helped at all), not given money from the government to buy them. Where's the help I need in buying a place? I earn too much, I'm sure.

-Signed, Bitter Capitalist!

[Wild Style]

capitalism is what has lead to the country going into one of the worst economic down turns in three decades.

As for the homes, its either let them sit and create ghost towns or you put the property to use. They have chosen the smarter of the two choices.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

capitalism is what has lead to the country going into one of the worst economic down turns in three decades.

It's not capitalism, it's the type of capitalism. We are still talking about government-manipulated capitalism after all, we aren't talking about a truly free market and a responsible American public. Think about how the gov't didn't let Bear Stearns fail a week ago. The government should stay out of their business so our economy could more quickly return to it's natural state, since our economy is based on irresponsible debt and out of balance for that reason. Watch as these kind of cases start to pile up over the next 6 months. We are going to crash and burn instead of having a soft landing because of government intervention in cases like last week. You also can't forget about our "stimulus check", the pseudo-fascist government handing out money that they don't actually have and telling us to "go shopping" instead of paying off our ridiculous debt, which wouldn't work anyway because like I said, they don't really have that money. Pay off debt with debt.

Honestly though, what's a better way to go? I would like to hear your ideas. I'm not a flat out Libertarian but I think the government should be responsible for infrastructure and nothing else, and that is not what our government is functioning as right now, so as a result our infrastructure AND economy are failing.

Back on topic, Hallandale buying the foreclosed homes sounds great in the meanwhile, because Broward County is ridiculously overpriced and overvalued, even the foreclosures, but in the long term, how is city government buying houses for the poor to live going to help the middle class? That's just going to keep the prices from falling more than they should naturally. The best part is that this is at the expensive of the middle class taxpayer living in their overpriced 2 bedroom condo conversion who could just as easily back their bags for North Carolina. Talk about encouraging middle class exodus!

[eufo]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

capitalism is what has lead to the country going into one of the worst economic down turns in three decades.

As for the homes, its either let them sit and create ghost towns or you put the property to use. They have chosen the smarter of the two choices.

Nah. Why so extreme? Hallandale Beach won't become a ghost town if the property is allowed to sit and devalue, so just let it continue to go down. Eventually someone will snap up the property to rent out or to bulldoze. Let the market work itself out.

And with regards to capitalism: Capitalism has led us from a fledgling colony into a world superpower. We still have the largest economy in the world. While tides have been shifting, to blame it on capitalism is silly. China's recent economic advances are in fact DUE to a shift towards capitalism from communism. But let's not turn this into an economic debate.

[eufo]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

It's not capitalism, it's the type of capitalism. We are still talking about government-manipulated capitalism after all, we aren't talking about a truly free market and a responsible American public. Think about how the gov't didn't let Bear Stearns fail a week ago. The government should stay out of their business so our economy could more quickly return to it's natural state, since our economy is based on irresponsible debt and out of balance for that reason. Watch as these kind of cases start to pile up over the next 6 months. We are going to crash and burn instead of having a soft landing because of government intervention in cases like last week. You also can't forget about our "stimulus check", the pseudo-fascist government handing out money that they don't actually have and telling us to "go shopping" instead of paying off our ridiculous debt, which wouldn't work anyway because like I said, they don't really have that money. Pay off debt with debt.

Honestly though, what's a better way to go? I would like to hear your ideas. I'm not a flat out Libertarian but I think the government should be responsible for infrastructure and nothing else, and that is not what our government is functioning as right now, so as a result our infrastructure AND economy are failing.

Back on topic, Hallandale buying the foreclosed homes sounds great in the meanwhile, because Broward County is ridiculously overpriced and overvalued, even the foreclosures, but in the long term, how is city government buying houses for the poor to live going to help the middle class? That's just going to keep the prices from falling more than they should naturally. The best part is that this is at the expensive of the middle class taxpayer living in their overpriced 2 bedroom condo conversion who could just as easily back their bags for North Carolina. Talk about encouraging middle class exodus!

Man, you SO nailed it, but I can't give you any rep!

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

It's not capitalism, it's the type of capitalism. We are still talking about government-manipulated capitalism after all, we aren't talking about a truly free market and a responsible American public. Think about how the gov't didn't let Bear Stearns fail a week ago. The government should stay out of their business so our economy could more quickly return to it's natural state, since our economy is based on irresponsible debt and out of balance for that reason. Watch as these kind of cases start to pile up over the next 6 months. We are going to crash and burn instead of having a soft landing because of government intervention in cases like last week. You also can't forget about our "stimulus check", the pseudo-fascist government handing out money that they don't actually have and telling us to "go shopping" instead of paying off our ridiculous debt, which wouldn't work anyway because like I said, they don't really have that money. Pay off debt with debt.

Honestly though, what's a better way to go? I would like to hear your ideas. I'm not a flat out Libertarian but I think the government should be responsible for infrastructure and nothing else, and that is not what our government is functioning as right now, so as a result our infrastructure AND economy are failing.

Back on topic, Hallandale buying the foreclosed homes sounds great in the meanwhile, because Broward County is ridiculously overpriced and overvalued, even the foreclosures, but in the long term, how is city government buying houses for the poor to live going to help the middle class? That's just going to keep the prices from falling more than they should naturally. The best part is that this is at the expensive of the middle class taxpayer living in their overpriced 2 bedroom condo conversion who could just as easily back their bags for North Carolina. Talk about encouraging middle class exodus!

No disrespect but my first degree is in Economics. I finished my first degree back in 2000, did my thesis paper on the then telecom and tech bubble. I say that to say, I have studied this subject for some time (back to 1996). The problem we are in now goes much further back than the buy out of some investment bank. The markets were given free reign (laissez faire) which is what lead to all these exotic loans and shadow banking etc. You can NOT allow the market to do anything it wants. People are greedy, plain and simple and as such will not do what is in the best interest of the country. They will do what is in their own best interest and as such they should be watched and curtailed. NYTs put up a great article on this very subject today, its six pages but if you have the time you should check it out. I should mention that the business cycle where there are boom times and recessions are natural cycles in a capitalistic society. Nothing is wrong with that at all, but they should not be coming to us every 7 years or less as has been the case recently. There was a bubble in the financial markets in the 90s, that went up in flames and then there was the tech and telecom bubble in 2001 and now this housing, financial bubble. These are all speculative bubbles where faux wealth is created for a number of reasons. Again this is all part of capitalism and all were allowed to happen out of a lack of proper regulation/over sight.

As for what a government should do? No, they should not just be involved in infrastructure. As said before, people left up to their own devices will do what is in their own best interest regardless of how that affects the over all society. People should be allowed to do business yes, but with in limits. lets say govt didn't get involved at all with anything but infrastructure. Heck, you could be sold cold medicine with non tested drugs that could cause cancer or known to cause cancer. But with this limited govt your talking about, there would be no one to stop them until citizens catch on and stop purchasing the product. By that time you will have a number of deaths or people becoming ill. If we did a hands off govt. people would be free to scam people in contracts and steal their money. That is just a all around bad idea to say the least. Govt is there to protect and provide for its citizens. That is why we pay taxes, for these protections.

As for the housing issue, buy up the homes and turn them around and give them to people able to make monthly payments. That is what I say, the alternatives could be where communities are allowed to become squatter villages, vagrants moving in and all other sorts of undesirable situations coming about.

This is a very complicated situation. One we have not seen the likes of ever. A lot of these things have happened before but not compounded nationally at one momentous time. This next few years will be extremely interesting, just hope everyone is prepared.

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by eufo

Nah. Why so extreme? Hallandale Beach won't become a ghost town if the property is allowed to sit and devalue, so just let it continue to go down. Eventually someone will snap up the property to rent out or to bulldoze. Let the market work itself out.

And with regards to capitalism: Capitalism has led us from a fledgling colony into a world superpower. We still have the largest economy in the world. While tides have been shifting, to blame it on capitalism is silly. China's recent economic advances are in fact DUE to a shift towards capitalism from communism. But let's not turn this into an economic debate.

Do you understand what it means to be the worlds largest economy? doesn't mean that we magically got something right. We spend far more than any other nation on earth, thats what that means. We are a debtor nation and that is nothing to be proud of. For every dollar earned the average American spending something like 1.50 over that, so they spend that on credit. This is part of what has put us in the place we are in now. With the GDP being made up of about 72% of consumer spending, when credit isn't available that means we tank. So that statement about us being the largest economy doesn't mean much. It makes our government strong becuase companies are clamoring to sell their goods to people they know will spend money they don't have to obtain these goods. Again, nothing good to be proud of or brag about.

Bulldozing homes, allowing it to sit in a time when people are unable to get loans? I don't know how wise that would be. You are opening the door for undesirables to move into areas.

As I said before, I have a degree in economics, I blame capitalism because I understand its workings. To say it is silly is to show you have very little understanding of whats at play right now. It is not so clear cut and dry and I am in no way prepared nor do I have the desire to spell it out. I would just say do some earnest research on the matter from reputable sources. You should check out the blog of professor Nouri el Roubini a econ professor at NYU. A lot of people don't agree with him but he has a wealth of knowledge on that site from which he draws his conclusions, all of which are factual. I also say pick up the January issue of Harper's Magazine about the next bubble. That lays out clear as day what this economy is/has become and were it could be headed given certain factors are in place.

[compelled to reply]

wild style

I see where you are coming from and you base what you say on fact but I am just curious as to what you consider a better way. Maybe to avoid taking the thread off topic the moderator can move the economic stuff into the chat thread.

Although you make a compelling (heh) point about the subprime loans in the 90s, I think the biggest problem is that irresponsible consumers allowed themselves to take such a gamble. What I was saying about the Bear Stearns situation is that we are going to start seeing a lot of these (just the beginning) and these banks need to fail instead of the fed trying to support them. IMO that's the wrong place for intervention.

[Wild Style]

compelled I agree 1000%, let those damn banks fail! But, are you prepared for what comes with that? Our economy will get a lot worse, but I say screw it, lets take our medicine so we can come back stronger and better. Also yes, silly, greedy consumers are just as guilty in this whole thing as well.