Solar Use In The Cape??? (homes, depreciation, tax credit)

[MichaelFink]

rikoshaprl, Yes, clean panels will have better output. I would recommend twice a year, a mild soap and a soft brush, soft like you would want to use on a fine paint job on your dream car. For the DIY, some homes can be done from the ground with an extension for the brush and the water hose. We looked at cleaning as a service, and it is hard to justify running a truck out to clean for less than $75. So it can equal one month of production in the example system above.

Thanks BugManTPC,
We would love to speak with you about your commercial project. Also a little more background on us. I am the boots on the ground guy that started the business as an Electrical Contractor, and installation side of the business. For six years my focus has been solar electric 100%
My partner is the numbers guy with his past experience in business and finance, I would recommend any one wanting more financial information to please contact him. Mr. Winston Shepard. winston@suncommercialsolar.com.
Sunny regards,

[Jason Szumlanski]

Originally Posted by Samiamnh

Solar won't do much good when temps dip into the 50's and 60's at night.A complete waste of money.Al Gore heats his pools with electricity....what does that tell you?

This thread got way off track. It started as a solar pool heating question, and then drifted to a solar electric answer. I work for Fafco Solar in Cape Coral, and we have been heating pools with solar for four decades. I don't think we'd be here if solar pool heating was some kind of newfangled hoax. Yes, it works, plain and simple.

In response to the quote above, that's nonsense. Solar pool heating depends on the daytime solar radiation and ambient temperature. If you cover your pool, the nighttime temperature is only a secondary concern. Furthermore, if the ambient temperature is in the 50's an 60's, you can forget about a heat pump (electric heater) doing any good, as they take heat from the air and transfer it to the pool water. I've seen people run their heat pumps overnight when it's cold, only to find out their pool is still cold and their electric bill is through the roof. In addition, most people don't use their pool anyway when the ambient temperature is low.

A well sized solar pool heating system will heat your pool by at least 10 degrees (15 with a cover) above unheated pool temperatures on days that you are likely to want to swim. Since unheated pools rarely dip below 66 degrees in Southwest Florida, that makes for comfortable swimming most of the year. A heat pump can supplement solar pool heating, but again, you are unlikely to want to swim when it is very cold and the heat pump performs the worst under these conditions.

[rikoshaprl]

The heat pump is great to heat the spa quickly. My solar does work well for warming the pool. My pool hit 87 degrees today with only solar heat. It is mounted on a flat lanai roof. It even works with the two speed pump on low.

[Jason Szumlanski]

You might want to check your flow rate when the pump is on low. For optimum solar pool heating performance, you should shoot for approximately 4 GPM per panel. Anything less than 2 GPM per panel and the performance drops off dramatically, at least in test conditions. 87 degrees is a bit on the cool side for a properly sized solar pool heating system this time of year. We are seeing pools in the lower 90's in most cases right now.

You can get a regular flow meter, or ideally a FlowVis check valve with integral flow gauge.

[MartyGras]

Originally Posted by Jason Szumlanski

This thread got way off track. It started as a solar pool heating question, and then drifted to a solar electric answer. I work for Fafco Solar in Cape Coral, and we have been heating pools with solar for four decades. I don't think we'd be here if solar pool heating was some kind of newfangled hoax. Yes, it works, plain and simple.

Jason

You may want to re read the original post this thread started out as a Solar Electric question not a pool heating question.

I'm just curious has anyone bitten the bullet and put in the solar electric since this thread was started in 2010

Gary

[Jason Szumlanski]

Originally Posted by MartyGras

Jason

You may want to re read the original post this thread started out as a Solar Electric question not a pool heating question.

I'm just curious has anyone bitten the bullet and put in the solar electric since this thread was started in 2010

Gary

That's a good point. I meant that the other way around.

To answer your question, lots of people have installed solar electric in Cape Coral since 2010. I would be happy to point you to several people for whom my company has installed panels. If you want to see the performance of a 21 panel system (5.04kW DC) installed in 2012, here is one with publicly available monitoring data:

https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/...ems/NNQk126038

[nhkev]

What we're talking about are two completely different things. the fafco product is a great product. I believe the consumer name is Sungrabber. This is more of a passive solar product. It is similar to leaving a garden hose unraveled in the sun and when you turn the water on it comes out hot.
a pool pump pushes water through a series of tubes that get mounted usually on a roof then the warmed water gets pumped into the pool. This system does work. I am in Massachusetts and the temperature of the pool can be 85 degrees even when the outside temp is only 75.
it is best to turn the system off at night unless you want to cool the pool water. The cost of this system is very reasonable. I saw a 6 panel kit for under 600 dollars and it is a do it yourself job for someone that is somewhat handy with pvc piping. each panel can heat the pool 20,000 btu's so depending on your pool size most pools I've seen in florida can get away with the 6 panel system.

in contrast my friend spent 600 dollars in just a couple weeks heating their pool with propane. I am a big supporter of this particular product and have seen it first hand and believe it is well worth the investment.

Solar panels on the other hand..... My neighbors across the street decided to go with the "traditional" solar panels that most people think of that produce electricity from solar. they spent 50k and although they may never recoup it through their electric bills I believe they would get some back on the resale of the house. Personally I may be tempted to pay xxx more for a house that was fully solar.

But at a cost of 50k I would not do it myself. much better ways to invest your money

[Jason Szumlanski]

Originally Posted by nhkev

What we're talking about are two completely different things. the fafco product is a great product. I believe the consumer name is Sungrabber. This is more of a passive solar product. It is similar to leaving a garden hose unraveled in the sun and when you turn the water on it comes out hot.
a pool pump pushes water through a series of tubes that get mounted usually on a roof then the warmed water gets pumped into the pool. This system does work. I am in Massachusetts and the temperature of the pool can be 85 degrees even when the outside temp is only 75.
it is best to turn the system off at night unless you want to cool the pool water. The cost of this system is very reasonable. I saw a 6 panel kit for under 600 dollars and it is a do it yourself job for someone that is somewhat handy with pvc piping. each panel can heat the pool 20,000 btu's so depending on your pool size most pools I've seen in florida can get away with the 6 panel system.

in contrast my friend spent 600 dollars in just a couple weeks heating their pool with propane. I am a big supporter of this particular product and have seen it first hand and believe it is well worth the investment.

You are right - we are talking about two different things. However, the Sungrabber is also a "different thing." We do not use or recommend these in Florida, where year-round, or near-year-round swimming is desirable. The Sungrabber does a good job of making summertime fun a bit more enjoyable where you have seasons. They work great when the ambient temperature is relatively warm. To heat you pool in the winter in Florida, which is the time that most people are here and the time at which you need to heat your pool the most, you need a more robust solar pool heating system. FAFCO offers Revolution, Sunsaver, and Sunsaver ST panels through it's network of professional solar contractors in Florida. I can't begin to tell you how many people buy a "$600" system online and then come to use complaining that it doesn't meet their expectations. It is complete misinformation to suggest that a Florida pool owner will be satisfied with a $600 Internet DIY kit.

Here's the math... A 20,000 BTU rated panel would heat 20,000 pounds of water 1 degree per day. Typical residential pools in Florida are around 12,000 gallons, or 96,000 pounds of water. That means 6 Sungrabber panels would be capable of heating a typical pool by 1.25 degrees F per day. Given that most people do not cover their pools here, all of that heat would be lost each night. Typical professionally installed solar pool heating systems in Florida are rated closer to 350,000 BTU/day. Proper sizing will provide the best customer satisfaction. The recovery time is much, much faster with this type of system.

Also, the DIY market is not popular here due to building code requirements. We have hurricane force winds to contend with, so an engineered system is important.

I can't stress enough - if you are thinking of heating your pool in Florida with Solar, DO NOT buy anything online. You will NOT be satisfied.

Originally Posted by nhkev

Solar panels on the other hand..... My neighbors across the street decided to go with the "traditional" solar panels that most people think of that produce electricity from solar. they spent 50k and although they may never recoup it through their electric bills I believe they would get some back on the resale of the house. Personally I may be tempted to pay xxx more for a house that was fully solar.

But at a cost of 50k I would not do it myself. much better ways to invest your money

You would be hard pressed to fit $50,000 of solar electric (photovoltaic) panels on a residential roof in Florida with today' prices, especially after tax credits. The net price of a typical residential solar electric system on a typical modest home in Southwest Florida is closer to $15,000 - $25,000. The market has changed drastically in the last few years. Plummeting prices and fierce competition has driven prices way down. The initial cost is easily recouped in the lifetime of the system, even without tax credits. The return on investment is better than other investments with similar terms and risk profiles. Ask a professional, or better yet, ask a professional to refer you to a customer who is actually doing it. The investment returns are quantifiable and verifiable with today's advanced monitoring systems.

[rikoshaprl]

There is a demonstration of solar power for your home in Rosen Park on Saturday, Sept. 21, 2013 at 4:00PM
Solar Energy is in! Learn how to have your own bare bones system - - Preparing in Cape Coral, FL (Cape Coral, FL) - Meetup

[nhkev]

granted up north we cover our pools at night which does make a huge difference. last week we had two nights that dropped down into the upper 40's and when I took my pool cover off around 10:30 am the water temperature was the same as it was the afternoon before. 1.25 degree per day isn't bad as long as you keep it with a pool cover. It makes the difference between a normal 78 degree pool without any add'l heat source and an 87 degree pool with the sungrabber system , yes it is only an 8 degree difference that takes a week to achieve but it is huge in terms of water enjoyability and probably extends our season for swimming a couple weeks on each end. In my neighborhood we have 3 pool owners that heat this way and all have to turn the system off a lot of the time due to temperatures reaching over 92 degrees. all of us had bought these systems online and were able to do ourselves . but yes they must be used in conjunction with a pool cover and system must be shut off at night or it will cool your pool instead of heating it.

but as you said hurricane codes are different and I imagine these things would blow off a roof during a hurricane. So this would be more of an option for snowbirds who have pools outside of the hurricane zone.