Chinese drywall in your SW FL home............. (Cape Coral: mortgage, appliances)
Fort Myers - Cape Coral areaLee County
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Ok................so bottom line....................Is it really safe to buy ANY house in Florida built in 2001-2008? If there is a good likelihood of it containing this drywall and possibily it not being detected even by an inspection..............should I even take that risk to buy at all? Yes the prices are enticing as are the homes but is Northport or Tampa or anywhere safe if the homes are new and built in that time frame? I am going to florida next week to buy a house and now I am really concerned. I have seen listings in port charlette and cc and Lehigh that state the home may have chinese drywall. If some do , who is to say they all dont? Can I feel safe anywhere in Florida in a newer home? Was this drywall used in California or Nevada during these years? I cant afford to take a chance like this with a permanent home for me and my son and elderly mother. Someone please tell me what to do.
Thanks
Debbie
Friends of ours just purchased in Parkland (Broward County) in a high scale WCI development. Fortunately their house didn't have Chinese drywall unlike their neighbors who do. This family is constantly sick and apparently have little recourse to their situation. They are financially strapped.
If you find a dream home,you should stipulate that any purchase will be based on a clean inspection. If you can not be guaranteed this, than walk away from the deal.
So is it really possible to get a CLEAN INSPECTION? Is the testing sufficient to detect for this problem? Are you refering to the test that cost $500 through the inspection service? I am just wondering if any test will know for sure or if its a way for them to make money and say they are testing but ultimately they dont really know for sure. Do any of you know if homes in Northport have been found to have this. That whole area was built after the hurricaine. So many homes are being sold there monthly that you would think people are either totally nieve or totally trusting that the homes are safe. which is it?
They will eventually find that the Chinese drywall problem is somewhat overblown. All drywall and wallboard is made from calcuim sulfate, gypsum. In the presence of impurities it will break down into sulfuric acid, which can destroy copper by turning it to copper sulfate. However, there is a simple fix- open the windows and let outside air in. Closed-in buildings concentrate the vapors released from the drywall and they create a toxic atmosphere of sulfates that can also cause serious health problems. Personally I am very sensitive to sulfates and am allergic to just about any drywall ever made. My solution was to build a house containing no drywall. Plasterboard that was used in my parent's home is not a problem, as boric acid and lime were used to increase the plaster bond and that eliminates sulfate release.
In short if you are stuck in a home with chinese drywall open the windows and sweat like a true Floridian.
It is not blown into the ball park of where it needs to be.
First off, the EPA found 10 times higher the amount of sulfur in the bad drywall then in regular drywall. It is not the same.
Second, opening up the windows on a humid or hot day, like the weather we are in now, will make the problem MUCH worse as people with the EPA and CPSC, also confirmed. Cool and VERY dry is how people need to keep their places to reduce the off gassing as much as possible, if they can not find a way out of those homes.
The reason the seriousness of this problem is not blown to where it needs to be is mostly due to the fact that no one knows, who is going to cover the estimated 3 billion in expenses of correcting this problem.
When Senator Nelson at the last hearing asked the CPSC why they havn't recalled it yet, they said it's because, they have NO IDEA how a recall for something like this would even work.
Think about it. What are these people suppose to do, rip out all of their drywall and take it to the manufacturer in China for a refund?
The government can't sound the alarms, because they don't know where to direct people after that.
One thing is for sure. Doctors are telling people living in these contaminated homes to GET OUT.
Hydrogen Sulfide is nasty stuff, with a chemical makeup akin to mustard gas. The body can loose tolerance to low levels after a long while of chronic daily exposure. When it does, the symptoms of higher exposure levels can manifest.
Please do not minimize a gas so strong it can eat through a copper AC evaporater coil in a matter of months. These gases are doing a lot of physical and health damage to people and their personal property. It's serious and this unregulated product had no business being used in building construction. Several cities in Virginia took matters into their own hands and have already banned the use of it.
Do you honestly beleive that many builders would be paying the cost of moving families out for up to 6 months, gutting the homes down to block and studs and replacing almost everything, if this was a matter to solve as simple as openning some windows?
They will eventually find that the Chinese drywall problem is somewhat overblown. All drywall and wallboard is made from calcuim sulfate, gypsum. In the presence of impurities it will break down into sulfuric acid, which can destroy copper by turning it to copper sulfate. However, there is a simple fix- open the windows and let outside air in. Closed-in buildings concentrate the vapors released from the drywall and they create a toxic atmosphere of sulfates that can also cause serious health problems. Personally I am very sensitive to sulfates and am allergic to just about any drywall ever made. My solution was to build a house containing no drywall. Plasterboard that was used in my parent's home is not a problem, as boric acid and lime were used to increase the plaster bond and that eliminates sulfate release.
In short if you are stuck in a home with chinese drywall open the windows and sweat like a true Floridian.
Bwaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa!!!! Sir you are making laugh like I would seeing a message board for my sports teams!
I think there is SOME merit to the issue and I sure as hell am going to do everything I can to avoid purchasing a home with Chinese drywall. I would ask you if you are a laywer but surely your not because I know your opinion would be different.
Hi my name is Willy and my wife and I just bought this lovely 350K home and are now going to sweat it out like true Floridians that we will be
I know very little about chemicals and how they react etc but my question is this, there was some issues with formaldahyde in rv's and campers and the toxins in new cars with the plastics they were using and in both situations the gases are not a permanant problem that usually after 6 months they kind of exhaust themselves.. with the drywall it really can't omit fumes forever does anyone know if this is the case , have they studied if amounts of sulfur decrease over time.
Bad drywall now up in a house for 8 years, is still causing the problems. Homeowners have complained that it seems to get worse with time, not better.
This is unlike how new furniture chemical sprays off gas in a few days, weeks, or even new construction off gassing that is all gone within a few years. The problem with this drywall is that it wasn't something sprayed on. The drywall itself is made with the toxic ash.
Nothing happens unless someone decides to do something about it.
Are you asking what options there are?
All of them are unfortunately costly, either to finances, health or both.
Because of that, I think it's important that I caution anyone finding out their home has it, to look out for going into denial type thinking or flat out delusional wishful type thinking.
It's understandable that so many facing something this messed up go there. It doesn't help them in the short or long term if they do.
Home Owners Insurance doesn't cover the problem because of a pollution clause.
Some builders people bought their home from are out of business. They only have an attorney to turn to, to go after the chain behind the builder from sub contacters, to suppliers, importers and the manufacturer.
Some builders are offering a contract for a half assed solution. By half assed I mean, they are not removing ALL of the cross contaminated building materials, which would require a complete bulldozing, rebuilding and replacement of everything, along with the replacement of peoples cross contaminated furnishings and or damaged personal belongings from corrosion pitting. Those builders are also denying any correlation to health problems and are not offering any compensation for medical expenses incurred from exposure issues. They are also only offering a 1 year warranty on the repair.
This should be of concern. It will take at least that for the contamination in the block, studs, and whatever else original goes back in, like cabinetry, window treatments ect, to start corrodoing copper again. By the time repeat damage is noticed, the repair warranty will have expired and the builder is off scott free, leaving you with a yet contaminated toxic home, contaminated furnishings, potential health problems, and a house that has to be disclosed with chinese drywall repair when you go to sell.
It's a lousy deal in the end, even though, the all expenses paid 6 month move out looks attractive.
Many who signed, later realizing the above, have no plans to move back in to a half repaired, still contaminated house that may still be worthless on the market.
Florida state law will not allow them to add a waiver for medical law suit liability in the repair contract, but these people do have to sign away rights to sue for personal property damage and the dimunition of home property value. Though these are relatively new homes, realtors are adding a drywall discolsure adendum to sales contracts. These people will have to disclose that their house has been repaired for toxic chinese drywall when they go to sell.
What does the "builders" repair mean anyway? There has been NO official remediation protocal set yet for this problem. Many independent industry people doubt what current builders are doing because they know the wood and block, have been contaminated and question the structural integrity of corroded metal joints and nails.
Because there has been no official and proven to resolve the problem for good, remediation protocal, what is the worth of a repaired home? I am aware of a discounted sale that fell apart, for a closing date set after the builder repair was to be finished. The buyers lender would not give a loan on a repaired chinese drywall home.
It's understandable. It's the banks security asset and how secure is it, if no one knows how badly the stigma and facts to come out in the future, will effect future resale, or how effective any builders chosen remediation will be.
What if it is determined a few years from now that the homes needed to be bulldozed?
Now I read about a company using chlorine dioxide gas for a remedy. Anyone who became sensitive to the sulfur gases, needs to be very careful about any further chemical fog/ gas remedies to the home or furnishings, as it will be like using gas to put out a fire for those people.
The chlorine dioxide will do nothing to remedy corrosion caused to metal supports in the homes structure, and further, the gas can be drying to wood. Both of which can perpetuate the loss of structural integrity to the home.
For the dilution level to be low enough to be safe, I can't imagine how it is powerful enough to work its way through all of the drywall, trusses, insulation studs and block, to fully solve the problem either. Make no mistake about this. All porous materials have been cross contaminated to the core.
This option being tested was orginally designed to treat anthrax terrorist attacks. If anthrax were ever used to contaminate a building , it would be lying around on the surface of things, where a low cholorine dioxide gas could be effective and safe.
This is different.
Clearly, there are to many unknowns at this time. Because this is a new problem, there has not been decades to find out , what remedies will stand the test of time.
Some people are moving out while paying their mortgage, waiting for law suits to go to trial.
Some people need to leave to get relief for health problems, and have no choice but to abandone the property and mortgage payments. I support them if that is what it takes to get their children out of those homes.
Ruined credit can be repaired. A childs brain, lungs, liver, heart, or kidney damaged, can't be. The sort of damage these chemicals can do to internal organs is permanent. Auto immune system type disorders will be the first to appear. In adults exposed to these gases in these homes, it seems the first sign of permanent damge is in the brain in the form of short term memory loss.
Though the sulfuric acid is causing much of the upper respiratory irritation symptoms like the nose bleeds, and I've even heard of some 4 years in coughing up blood, the hydrogen sulfide is the really bad one here. It is a neuro toxin, that can also cause mood disorders, depression, suicidal thoughts, and central nervous system damage. It also can cause damage to the organs because this gas, mimics oxygen in the blood, and therefore, deprives the body of oxygen.
One woman living in one of these homes who was hospitalized had blood test show her oxygenation levels were 70% of what they should have been. This is also what is causing the chronic fatigue, dizzyness and lethargy people are complaining about experiencing in these homes. It also puts more pressure on the heart to pump faster and can cause high blood pressure.
Speaking of hospitalizations, another woman in NC, living in a toxic drywall house, who has been having chronic pnuemonia, went in to have her chronically infected tonsils removed. The doctor said he never saw anything like them. They had black holes in them. Sounds just like the pitting done to metals in the home. Gross!!!
Not only will auto immune system disorders and diseases result from the chronic attack on the body by foriegn toxic chemical invaders, symptoms akin to having Multiple Sclerosis can appear because of the damage the Hydrogen Sulfide can do to the central nervous system. It would show up as chronic tightening and pulling of the muscles and ligaments.
I also read of people in Cape Coral in these homes complaining of chornic shoulder pain. That may not show up on any saftey data sheet for these chemicals, however, there are points in the upper back shoulder , where excess toxins will be stored in the muscle tissue, causing inflamation pain there.
Anyone in or recently moved out of one of these homes should be focussed on serious detox and immune system building regimes, as well as getting plenty of fresh air.
Anyone who has noticed a decline in health after having lived in a Chinese DWH, who has been in denial that the drywall is the cause of there problems, should at least, do themselves the favor of moving out for just one month. That is enough time to take notice of what chronic symptoms disapear, to know what you can tie to exposure, especilly noticing what symptoms return if you decide to go back.
The little research out there on chronic low level domestic exposure to these chemicals, is related to neighborhoods that surround paper mills, asphalt plants and oil wells.
I have sadly seen to many people fall into denial and delusion about the impact to health because they are putting their attachment to their things and money first. If they are just adults, fine. Those with kids staying in these homes, may end up filled with nightmarish would've should've could've regrets later, if they arn't already.
Take note that the health department, EPA and Consumer Product safety Commision, has really nothing to reference for advising people about chronic low level long term domestic exposure to these chemicals. Let it sink in that any of you living in these homes are the first lab rats for domestic exposure to toxic drywall.
When you hear state toxicologist David Krause say that levels as low as what a builders company, Environ, tested is to low to cause these problems, realize, he is looking at research done on adult men in the work place with exposure for minutes to hours. He is also looking at a testing company's results with a serious bias to protect the builder. He is still leaning heavily on the builders testing, though he did say that their departments first round of test did cast doubt on Environs results..
Worse, he should be ashamed of himself as a proffesional and fired. The testing the health department did, showed levels up to 1000 pb. These levels are noted on OSHA/NIOSH Saftey Data sheets and can cause the symptoms people are complaining about in a matter of minutes.
The OSHA/NIOSH saftey data sheets also state that the body can loose tolerance to low levels of hydrogen sulfide under chronic exposure, and can then, experience the symptoms of higher level exposures.
He should know this. It's easy information for anyone to find. The low levels being detected are irrelevant. The fact that they are detected in places where people live, eat sleep and breath 24/7 year after year is very relevant.
I watched the recent senate hearing on this. People from the EPA and CPSC admitted that those who went into effected homes to do the first round of testing, DID experience exposure symptoms. Jesus Christ, what more do they need to confirm for people that these homes are causing health problems.
Something else to note is that, though there are limited studies related to domestic exposure of just one of these chemicals at a time, with this drywall, there are at least 7 toxic chemicals that have been detected. It's a chemical cocktail, and who knows what the mix of these in the air at the same time can cause that has never been researched.
It is crucial for anyone living in a home built with the high sulfur drywall to realize that they are medical research lab rats. Who wants to be the one making the reports of what can happen after 5, 10, 15 20 years of exposure to this toxic chemical cocktail?
I say high sulfur because some U.S. made that uses the flyash ingredient has been causing the same problems the bad stuff from china has.
Some where along the line, someone tryingto be more "green" wanted to find a way to recycle the toxic ash waste from coal fired power plants.
I read a safety data sheet on a U.S. made product that uses this method. It says in plain English that it is stable under normal conditions, but if met with a source of ignition, high heat or humidity, hazardous off products are an effect.
What idiot okayed this drywall for use in hot and humid climates?
I have done the research and my advise that anyone living in these homes needs to get out them.
It is also in my researched opinion that these homes need to be torn down and rebuilt with all new materials, to be assured they are 100% resolved of the problem. That is also the only way to not have to disclose the problem and not suffer the financial losses of a repair disclosure when you go to sell.
Weather one can smell it or not, all porous furnishings have been cross contaminated. I advise against taking them with you when you move out. So does a Toxicologist who was recently interviewed. Glass, stone and metal are fine.
One may be an adult with a poor sense of smell, thinking they did good getting out, all the while, their children are still sleeping on matresses contaminated to the core with toxins every night.
It's so sad that bringing a family into a safe haven, has to be so costly. Sadder is that, many parents are in denial, trying to hold on to their things, while their children are getting sicker. It's understandable as most people have their lifes work and savings into their homes and things.
To answer your question about what happens? It depends on what anyone who has identified it in their home wants to make happen. If they do nothing, damage to appliances, structural integrity, electrical wiring, electronics, personal belongings, and health will get worse.
If you try to sell without disclosure, you can get sued to have to buy the house back if the new owner can prove you knew about it.
Some banks are giving short term forebarence on a mortgage to cover various expenses while trying to solve the problem.
Some things to think about if you fully grok the implications to the deterioration of health in these homes but are having trouble with facing the financial devastation and responcibilities that also need looking after.
Even if you can afford to pay rent and mortgage, unless you are aiming to find a way to get the builder to buy back the home, or bulldoze and rebuild it, you are putting good money after bad.
The banks are giving billions in tax credits and bail outs by the government. What has the government given you in free handouts, loans or tax credits to help you through this?
The banks can even write your truly toxic asset off at a loss, while they sell it for land value. You would think that banks would be joining the homeowners in law suits to get the homes rebuilt from the ground up. They are not, because, they can handle the loss.
I am not one for government bailouts, however, I think they have a responcibility towards any defective unregulated product that they let come into this country or was approved for use that is manufactured here. I only say that because as tax payers, we are FORCED to have to pay for the expenses and salaries of groups like the EPA, CPSC, Center for Disease Control, Customs Inspecters, Regulators, County Building Inspecters ect. If we are forced to have to pay for these saftey regulation services, they need to be doing their jobs then. The whole lot of them failed a lot of people here and the damages are running in the billions now, with no one even knowing what the ultimate cost to health will be.
Along with figuring out a way to get health secured first, find a good attorney that can help recoup losses. I would go for buying the house back or a tear down rebuild, the replacement of all damaged personal belongings, medical expenses and medical monitoring as well as punitive.
Good luck to anyone being made whole through a law suit. The attorneys however will be able to retire off of this one.
Accept whatever financial losses are inccured and be thankful for whatever level of health you come out of it with and get on with life.
Definetely file a report with the State Health Department, the EPA and the CPSC. Write your elected officials. Complain to the county commisioners about building inspections.
David Krause said he heard that attorneys were telling their clients not to file reports with government agencies. If this is true, consider that your chosen law firm doesn't want the government to realize how bad this is and step in, before they get their chance to prove how bad it is in the courts and walk away with their millions. The government can't get funding for testing which could maybe help put them in a position to go after China for everyone, leaving lawyers out, if complaint reports don't come in.
They say at least 36,000 homes/condos in Florida have it, yet only 364 complaint reports have come in. In my understanding, people are not calling in reports because they don't trust the government. Call in anyway so they no longer have excuses for their poor lack of taking action on this. The product hasn't even been banned for use yet.
Currently County building inspectors are letting builders slap new wiring, AC and ventilations systems, appliances and drywall, into gutted homes, that have been deeply cross contaminated. I've been in a few and without the AC in to keep them dryer and cooler, it's so bad, exposure symptoms can be experienced within minutes. You can smell the gases coming from out of open windows and doors.
The county inspectors say they just have to insure things are re-built to code until they get further instruction. That is B.S. by the way too. They can smell how bad it is, they can request money for testing and put a stop to this il fated half assed remediation. There are some bad politics involved favoring the builders, not the home owners going on.
If I make anything crystal clear here, it is for people to face the fact that cross contamination to all porous materials has occured.
Beyond that, it is to impress upon people that they are the lab rats for health research on domestic exposure to Chinese ( high sulfur) drywall. The only people who know what the short and long term effects are, are those living in the places. Report all chronic health symptoms experienced since being in the home, including changes in pets.
Remember, this is a chemical cocktail, not researched before in the domestic environment.
Remember that you can repair your credit in a relatively short time.
There are two parties not to be trusted for information right now because of the liability and politics involved and that is the builders up through the chain to the manufacturer, and government agencies.
It's up to the people effected by this to use common sense, to do their own research, get independent parties involved, share information and experiences with others, and take decision making and action into their own hands. They also should turn for support to anyone who they trust will be concerned about their health first.
One problem with this is that the hydrogen sulfide and it's ability to cause mental fog, confusion, depression, and lethargy can make it difficult for someone effected to think their way clearly through this, let alone think their way through taking ACTION out of it. If you know of anyone living in denial in one of these homes, help them think and act their way out of it if you can. Realize the shock, fear, wishful thinking and denial they may be in. Facing the reality is facing financial ruin and possibly heavy guilt for what their children have been suffering through.
I wish I knew of a place to direct people to that would take care of everything for them. It doesn't exist. Builders are not fully taking care of this, the government is doing nothing, insurance is doing nothing, and Lawyers are not able to afford the expenses of moving people out until the suits are settled. Most of the large class action firms are so clueless, they are not even asking for complete rebuilds or buy backs of the worthless homes.
Why should someone who bought a new home in the last few years have to sell it with a major repair disclosure for a toxic product. That's not fair settlement.
People who have signed those builder contracts did so in a state of distress, wanting out for health reasons, and not being able to afford rent and mortgage. Builders have taken advantage of this and will leave these people with crap across the board in the end while making themselves look like heros who stand behind their product.
The local media up here in Manatee county, is not even publishing reports about how badly these contract agreements are turning out, because the builder is buying full page color ads in their papers. Many who signed the contracts are trying to warn others and the media will not report for them against the builders anymore.
I'll share what I have learned. I have learned that these homeowners are screwed. To what extent they want to put a stop to the screwing and get on with their life in a safe and rebuilding manor is up to them.
The straight skinny is that these homes fill with toxic gases, causing damage to health and things. Everything porous has been cross contaminated. What unseen long term damage has already been done to health is unknown. There is no long term proven remediation for the homes at this time.
Make your decisions from there.
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Would you live in a home like this?
