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Old 11-18-2009, 10:20 AM
 
14 posts, read 29,493 times
Reputation: 13

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Wet drywall in FL homes may have bacteria and other biologicals. Info from the FL State CDW conference stated that the CDW samples generating H2S where heated +200^F to kill bacteria. The CDW generated H2S similar after the sample was heated similar to before heating.

Dry CDW does not generate H2S. Wet, warm CDW generates H2S after 4-5 days.
Dry homes with moderate temperatures and windy weather do not higher than outside air for H2S. Sampling included sucking air from wall cavities. Data logging the CDW home under the various weather conditions is needed to develop a profile for H2S levels. Still looking for an occupied home to test with a failed coil and/or soon to be replaced a/c coil. After corrision reaches a certain level, experts feel that the coil will fail regardless of the H2S levels??
Regards Ken
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:22 PM
 
126 posts, read 190,637 times
Reputation: 84
Here are some notes from my inspector from the Symposium in Tampa.

  • Chinese Drywall off gasses 10 times more at 95 degrees than @ 74 degrees.
  • It will take 20 to 100 years for CD to stop off gassing.
  • Corrosion on copper will continue unless you remove scale. It does not go further up the wire or pipe but rather gets deeper. Once the copper is pitted, the pits allow for more corrosion.
  • False chemistry includes iron pyrites/strontium (there is some in both in domestic and CD, but CD has more.), fly ash, phosphogypsom, sulfuric acid, and bacteria. These theories of the cause of the corrosion were all discounted.
  • There are 3 true factories in China and 200 very small shops making drywall. Two factories are French and claim they did not ship to the US. The other is Knauf. I have seen a number of non-knauf brands. I don’t know if they were made by Knauf as a private label for an exporter by the small shops.
  • There are records of small amounts of CD being imported to the US going back to 1996 and to Tampa starting 1999.
  • 60% of the DW manufactured in the US is made from synthetic gypsum from smoke stack scrubbers which costs $3.5 per ton while mined gypsum is $7.50 per ton.
  • DW has been made in the US since 1894 and has been the primary wall material since 1955. DW has been made in China for only 20 years, obviously not long enough for QC.
  • Knauf only imported half inch regular DW.
  • There were over 800 hundred air tests performed by the various involved governmental agencies. The best equipment was used and here in Florida the tests were driven immediately to a lab in Lakeland. Over 90% of the test Failed to detect any of the 3 chemicals of concern. The 3 chemicals though to cause the corrosion are below the ability of the equipment to detect which is 1.5 PPB.
  • Go to Drywallresponse.gov for the CDC lab report.
  • It appears that the impurity in the CD is elemental sulfur, S8. This is the type of sulfur found in a child’s chemistry set. It is a stable crystal. It does of gas sulfur ions, S2, S3 and S4. The sulfur ions combine with carbon monoxide and other gases in the air to produce a host of chemicals. There are 3 chemicals (The 3 Chemicals) thought to be involved in the corrosion. The amount of elemental sulfur varied greatly in the 7 CDC Chinese Drywall samples they tested. S8 varied from less that 7.56 to 182 mg./kg. They also found sulfur in the paper.
  • The following are descriptions of The 3 Chemicals.
  • Hydrogen sulfide is a naturally occurring gas. Among the H2S sources are the bacteria in ones intestines and mouth. It is also found in well water, reclaimed irrigation, domestic water that has been sitting in pipes, sewers and wetlands. The odor level is 1 to 13 PPB. This is the rotten egg smell.
  • Carbon Disulfide is also naturally occurring in marshy areas. CS2 smells like sweet like chloroform when pure and like rotten cabbage when it is not pure.
  • Carbonyl Sulfide is an odorless gas. COS is the most abundant sulfur gas in the atmosphere.
  • It is thought these 3 chemicals create acetic acid that then corrodes the copper. Acetic acid is the acid in vinegar.
  • Formaldehyde levels were higher in domestic drywall homes than the Chinese Drywall homes. Formaldehyde could contribute to the health symptoms home owners are reported.
  • All the scientist agreed that they could not find a connection between CD and human health. The amounts of The 3 Chemicals are very low. The 3 Chemicals also do not build up in ones body.
  • The molecular sizes of The 3 Chemicals are too small to create an allergic reaction.
  • Having said that, The 3 Chemicals may cause a temporary irritation to the upper respiratory tract to sensitive persons.
  • The answer to “If the CD does that to the coils what is it doing to me” was answered. The body handles acidic compounds all the time and without problems. It was noted that if you put a piece of copper in with the cooking brussel sprouts the let it sit for a few hours, the brussel sprouts will turn the copper black. Or put a penny in a pop bottle. Sea air is very corrosive. We use acetic acid, vinegar, in our salads.
  • There were test done to determine if there was cross contamination. They tested the various wood products and the CBS block from a remediated home against the same materials from a big box store. There were more of The 3 Chemicals in the store bought components.
  • There was no new information on funding for the remediation. Bill Nelson said he did ask President Obama to address the issue while he was in China.


  • There were no written hand outs at the Symposium. These are hand written notes.
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Bernanke's Financial Laboratory
513 posts, read 770,381 times
Reputation: 211
"60% of the DW manufactured in the US is made from synthetic gypsum from smoke stack scrubbers which costs $3.5 per ton while mined gypsum is $7.50 per ton."

That comment really freaks me out. I refuse to believe that this synthetic drywall is safe after having seen the coal, fly ash site news and videos about the TVA and other places.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:39 AM
 
14 posts, read 29,493 times
Reputation: 13
I agree with most of the comments that the inspector that attended the FL State Conference on CDW. Also the point was made to get fresh air into the home, keep the homes cool and dry. My dry CDW does not produce measurable levels of H2S while the wet samples do. The concentrations vary with the amount of heat, heat, and air change rate.
I am interested in measuring the H2S levels and fresh air ventilation rate in an occupied home with CDW. Natural fresh air infiltration varies with wind, temperature, and mechanicals (a/c, fans, clothes drier, kitchen hood) operation. The extreme levels of H2S levels would be calm wind, high outdoor dew points, no temperature differentals, and no exhaust or make-up ventilation. There was not any extended data logged measurements of during these variables in the home .

My expectations would be that the H2S is very high during calm wet weather and very low during dry, windy weather.

Anyone that has the resources to remove the CDW should procede with remediation ASAP. For someone who decides to occupy a CDW home, and lives in the Cape Coral, FL area, contact me via my contact info. I will monitor the H2S levels and fresh air change rates in stable, secure residiental location for research information. Regards Ken
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:35 PM
Status: "You've grown up really crazy! - Eisley" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Deane Hill, Knoxville, Tennessee
21,686 posts, read 32,137,861 times
Reputation: 11809
You know what? There is already a surplus of homes in swFlorida.

Why the heck would someone take the chance and try to fix the drywall? There are tests that show it permeates the slab.

Homes prices are already low there to begin with. So why would someone spend money to try to fix a CDW home when they can get one down the road that doesn't have it and is dirt cheap?

And I wouldn't want to chance my health or my kids by staying there. I'd never go back. Walk away from the place.

If they bought and now they are stuck, I don't think your remidiation will work and they will be throwing good money after bad.

I understand someone trying to make a buck by fixing the problem, but it's not like there is a high demand for homes in the area, anyway. I don't think it's a good idea. If you want to make some money, then offer to demolish the building. That's what needs to be done.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers FL/ Ottawa ON
1,205 posts, read 2,002,619 times
Reputation: 436
I vote for trying.

I am thinking that if you super heat and humidify a house (like tenting for bugs) with anti-fungal/bacterial gas (irradiation?) to control biologicals, you may be able to quick purge most toxicity, to the point of making it livable with air exchange and humidity restriction.

think out of the box and keep trying...like the story on MS this week
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:53 PM
Status: "You've grown up really crazy! - Eisley" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Deane Hill, Knoxville, Tennessee
21,686 posts, read 32,137,861 times
Reputation: 11809
Quote:
Originally Posted by kroeran View Post
I vote for trying.

I am thinking that if you super heat and humidify a house (like tenting for bugs) with anti-fungal/bacterial gas (irradiation?) to control biologicals, you may be able to quick purge most toxicity, to the point of making it livable with air exchange and humidity restriction.

think out of the box and keep trying...like the story on MS this week
Normally, I'd be with you. But you have to have something worth saving. If we are talking about the slapped together cookie cutters then I say knock it down. Bottom line. Are you going to live there?


Don't know about the MS story. So, I'm off to go find out.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Bernanke's Financial Laboratory
513 posts, read 770,381 times
Reputation: 211
Chinese and American drywall on the national news tonight:

Defective Drywall Dilemma - CBS News Video

I'm so sick of seeing this crap that I want a house without drywall...
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:04 AM
 
14 posts, read 29,493 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
You know what? There is already a surplus of homes in swFlorida.

Why the heck would someone take the chance and try to fix the drywall? There are tests that show it permeates the slab.

Homes prices are already low there to begin with. So why would someone spend money to try to fix a CDW home when they can get one down the road that doesn't have it and is dirt cheap?

And I wouldn't want to chance my health or my kids by staying there. I'd never go back. Walk away from the place.

If they bought and now they are stuck, I don't think your remidiation will work and they will be throwing good money after bad.

I understand someone trying to make a buck by fixing the problem, but it's not like there is a high demand for homes in the area, anyway. I don't think it's a good idea. If you want to make some money, then offer to demolish the building. That's what needs to be done.
There were several presentations made at the FL ST Conference on testing done on the other materials in the CDW homes. None showed significant residual contanmination by any of the sulfur compounds providing all of the remediation materials were removed and the home was well ventilated for several weeks. What evidence do you have that the sulfur compounds are penerating any of the structure? Many of these homes are very well buildt with all of the bells and whistles.
I propose spending my buck to test the effects of fresh air and maintaining <50%RH. All of the air testing in the FL homes showed high formaldehyde levels with CDW or US drywall. Fresh air ventilation should be standard on all well built homes to purge the various indoor pollutants that accumulate from the material and activities in the home. Still looking for a home to test at our expense. Regards Ken
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:26 AM
Status: "You've grown up really crazy! - Eisley" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Deane Hill, Knoxville, Tennessee
21,686 posts, read 32,137,861 times
Reputation: 11809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Gehring View Post
There were several presentations made at the FL ST Conference on testing done on the other materials in the CDW homes. None showed significant residual contanmination by any of the sulfur compounds providing all of the remediation materials were removed and the home was well ventilated for several weeks. What evidence do you have that the sulfur compounds are penerating any of the structure? Many of these homes are very well buildt with all of the bells and whistles.
I propose spending my buck to test the effects of fresh air and maintaining <50%RH. All of the air testing in the FL homes showed high formaldehyde levels with CDW or US drywall. Fresh air ventilation should be standard on all well built homes to purge the various indoor pollutants that accumulate from the material and activities in the home. Still looking for a home to test at our expense. Regards Ken
I watched a lot of those homes being built. With all due respect, I laughed out loud when I read that.

And whether they are well-built or not is beside the point. I wouldn't live there. Would you?
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