Young family looking to move (Jacksonville, Miami: mover, house, theatre)

[Jennva]

Thank you so much for all of the info! Our biggest concern right now is the school system and crime. I know crime is everywhere (and it certainly is in Richmond!) but is there truth to the Haitian gangs and all of that other scary stuff on this forum? The schools here where we are living are very overcrowded but there is a ton of parent and community involvement and they are rated very well. I went online to look at schools but the ratings are all very good for most areas of Ft.Myers so I was impressed. There is a site where you can compare COL and schools and really it is quite comparable to where we are now. We love the outdoors and I would miss the four seasons, especially the fall. But I think all of the green and the 70 degree days would more than make up for it! We are very outgoing and love doing stuff so I would not imagine us hibernating inside in the hot months...maybe at first! My parents are looking into moving from here as well and they are looking in Cape Coral area but they are looking for a more retired lifestyle. We are also looking into Clearwater...Lutz and Safety Harbor look good. Any comparisions of the Ft. Myers area and Clearwater would be helpful!

[121804]

Originally Posted by Jennva

Thank you so much for all of the info! Our biggest concern right now is the school system and crime. I know crime is everywhere (and it certainly is in Richmond!) but is there truth to the Haitian gangs and all of that other scary stuff on this forum? The schools here where we are living are very overcrowded but there is a ton of parent and community involvement and they are rated very well. I went online to look at schools but the ratings are all very good for most areas of Ft.Myers so I was impressed. There is a site where you can compare COL and schools and really it is quite comparable to where we are now. We love the outdoors and I would miss the four seasons, especially the fall. But I think all of the green and the 70 degree days would more than make up for it! We are very outgoing and love doing stuff so I would not imagine us hibernating inside in the hot months...maybe at first! My parents are looking into moving from here as well and they are looking in Cape Coral area but they are looking for a more retired lifestyle. We are also looking into Clearwater...Lutz and Safety Harbor look good. Any comparisions of the Ft. Myers area and Clearwater would be helpful!

Therefore moving to the county with the highest foreclosure rate in the nation & an unemployment rate that has tripled in the past 2 years is probably not going to improve schools or crime. If anything, these things will be getting worse before they get better.

If it was just your husband & yourself, really no harm in taking the risk.

I can't see how anyone with school age children would even want to try to attempt the risk at this point.

I found the situation incredibly overwhelming when we lived there 2 years ago...I could never place my children in a sinking ship...

Sunny skies don't pay the mortgage or buy food. Sunny skies don't fund schools or allow for updated books and the best qualified teachers.

I spent some time in Colonial Heights, VA and Richmond would not be on my short list of desirable places, either.

Lee County's only source of true income is the retirees who move down & spend money on doctors & restaurants. There is no true economy & the "economy" during 2003-2007 was based on construction & everything related to that industry.

I AM NOT saying it's the worst place with the worst problems and everywhere else is better.

But it's quite bad there right now. Plain & simple.

You have children.

If the risk is worth it for you, go for it. But the writing is on the wall & what you see is what you get in SWFL, especially Lee County...so, enjoy the sunshine b/c that's about all it is...

Keep in mind that SWFL is sub-tropical & the weather pattern there is much different than Clearwater...more humidity & much warmer...

And before you attack what I wrote b/c it doesn't give an answer you want, you posted a question...this is an answer of many...if you only want postive info in order to convince yourself of what you want to hear...it helps to disclose that up front..

[Donna-501]

My children have done and are doing well and they have always had a FL education. Public school also. It depends on if there is parent involvement. I have a daughter up in NY now going to nursing school and she makes good grades and has a FL public school education.

[th3vault]

Originally Posted by Jennva

Thank you so much for all of the info! Our biggest concern right now is the school system and crime. I know crime is everywhere (and it certainly is in Richmond!) but is there truth to the Haitian gangs and all of that other scary stuff on this forum? The schools here where we are living are very overcrowded but there is a ton of parent and community involvement and they are rated very well. I went online to look at schools but the ratings are all very good for most areas of Ft.Myers so I was impressed. There is a site where you can compare COL and schools and really it is quite comparable to where we are now. We love the outdoors and I would miss the four seasons, especially the fall. But I think all of the green and the 70 degree days would more than make up for it! We are very outgoing and love doing stuff so I would not imagine us hibernating inside in the hot months...maybe at first! My parents are looking into moving from here as well and they are looking in Cape Coral area but they are looking for a more retired lifestyle. We are also looking into Clearwater...Lutz and Safety Harbor look good. Any comparisions of the Ft. Myers area and Clearwater would be helpful!

Don't regard the comments that bash the entire Lee County school system... yes there are some bad schools, but there are many good ones too. Some bash FL schools and keep talking about how "up north" schools are so much better....that's bogus. Florida K-12 ranks higher than many northern states do, so don't listen to the horror stories of FL schools being so bad....

I'm going to warn you right now....if you come down here with an attitude "I'm going to miss the 4 seasons".... you WILL miss them after years of the heat and humidity. Many of the FL bashers on this board came down here with the "it's all sun and fun" attitude, and several years later they too are complaining about the heat and humidity. Many others are content with the FL weather...it all depends on your attitude and what you like, just make sure you truly want the heat and humidity...because if you don't.....well, this board will have another FL basher in a couple of years.....

I'm from South Texas so I never "gave up seasons" to begin with....and FL weather suits me just fine....

I know that cost of living site....do not let it fool you.... type in "Estero, FL" (more representative of the areas your looking at) to compare, don't type in "Ft. Myers, FL" (this is only the city limits compared),..... you'll be shocked at the difference, I assure you.....

South Fort Myers is nice, I live there. But make sure you look at the community in depth, not just the house, before you go there. Some of them are really family oriented (The Colony, Gateway, Whiskey Creek) while others are senior-oriented (even if it doesn't specifically say 55+)....and trust me, anything senior-oriented down here is going to be a retirement center...not where you'd want to raise a family....

Clearwater/Fort Myers comparison: Ft Myers is a lot less urbanized than Pinellas County, you do have natural areas all around Fort Myers unlike the "New Jersey of Florida" (Pinellas County)... but you have more beach options and the benfits of a major city (Tampa) in Clearwater that you do not have in Fort Myers. Can't speak for the Pinellas Co. Schools.

Overall, I'd reccomend South Fort Myers/Estero... and maybe parts of Cape Coral. Just remember:

1. Stay away from the retirement communities.
2. Do a lot of research.
3. Make sure you really want this weather before coming down (I don't want another FL basher to have to deal with )
4. Get a SunPass....... it makes life MUCH easier in Florida, especially if you plan on visiting Orlando....

Hope that helps.

[121804]

Originally Posted by th3vault

Florida K-12 ranks higher than many northern states do, so don't listen to the horror stories of FL schools being so bad....

Lee County schools & FL schools are not the same thing. There are areas of FL with far better schools & much more family oriented. Job & housing situation is awful everywhere. I understand people liking nice weather but when you school age children, other things have to come first...such as employment & good schools...something Lee County cannot promote nor has AT THIS time...

And what "many" (that usually pertaining to 5 or more) northern states would that mean? Guess it depends on a person's definition of north, though.

Coming from Richmond, the biggest adjustment for this OP would be weather ( & SWFL is not the easiest weather to adjust to) & demographics. It is hard to be in a wide demographic & move to a much more narrow one; especially when the demograhics of Lee County revolve around 55+. I've done it & JMO.

You made a great, great point...research.

Take all the stuff on this board with an open mind & do real time research.

What they showed on tv yesterday in Lee County was obviously designed for shock factor, but it was bad & it was very, very sad. People do live there & like it, but things are just very bad there right now. It's the reality & the warm weather can't fix it.

[th3vault]

Originally Posted by 121804

Lee County schools & FL schools are not the same thing. There are areas of FL with far better schools & much more family oriented. Job & housing situation is awful everywhere. I understand people liking nice weather but when you school age children, other things have to come first...such as employment & good schools...something Lee County cannot promote nor has AT THIS time...

And what "many" (that usually pertaining to 5 or more) northern states would that mean? Guess it depends on a person's definition of north, though.

Coming from Richmond, the biggest adjustment for this OP would be weather ( & SWFL is not the easiest weather to adjust to) & demographics. It is hard to be in a wide demographic & move to a much more narrow one; especially when the demograhics of Lee County revolve around 55+. I've done it & JMO.

You made a great, great point...research.

Take all the stuff on this board with an open mind & do real time research.

What they showed on tv yesterday in Lee County was obviously designed for shock factor, but it was bad & it was very, very sad. People do live there & like it, but things are just very bad there right now. It's the reality & the warm weather can't fix it.

Your right about the 55+ demographic, not the easiest to adjust to. But Fort Myers/Cape Coral itself isn't that bad....it's Estero and points south with the gated communities where the demographic is totally 55+...

As for education:

Smartest State 2006-2007

Florida ranks 29.

Virginia is a bit higher at 6.

The Northeast also has better schools.

But many here are from the Midwest:

Michigan is 39.

Ohio is 34.

Illinois is 35.

And Florida ranks much higher than other relocation/transient states..... Arizona is dead last at 50, California is 47, Nevada is 49....

[justNancy]

RE: Gangs

I live in Bonita Springs and feel pretty safe. I am sure there are bad areas where you would not want to travel, but these are "patches" where the crime is concentrated. Fort Myers has a lot of crime, but you probably won't be moving to one of the rough areas anyway.

Yes, Bonita, Estero & Naples have a lot of gated communities, but there are plenty of children living here too. You asked about Charter Schools and I don't see a link posted, so here it is.

US Charter Schools Home

The problem with keeping good teachers here is the pay scale. Teachers in areas like CT make considerably more money. In order to attract the best talent, a school needs to offer a decent wage.

[121804]

Originally Posted by th3vault

Your right about the 55+ demographic, not the easiest to adjust to. But Fort Myers/Cape Coral itself isn't that bad....it's Estero and points south with the gated communities where the demographic is totally 55+...

As for education:

Smartest State 2006-2007

Florida ranks 29.

Virginia is a bit higher at 6.

The Northeast also has better schools.

But many here are from the Midwest:

Michigan is 39.

Ohio is 34.

Illinois is 35.

And Florida ranks much higher than other relocation/transient states..... Arizona is dead last at 50, California is 47, Nevada is 49....

Sad that there is even such a rating, but the midwest & southwest are not the north Most who compare the schools on this board are talking about MA, NY, NY, CT which far exceed FL's...but, thanks for the rankings? Did you get a year b/c I know FL's moved up a little last year.

For so long, SWFL's main drive was retirees. And SWFL gated retiree communities are notoriously known for their feelings on young children And they have every right...a person just has to be ready for the "welcome" that is anything but with many of the retirees in that area.

Things are rough mostly everywhere. To move right now requires research of extraordinary levels & a backup plan. Things are just too volatile to not be prepared 150%.

The issue with FM is the employment issue. An unemployment rate that has tripled in the last two years is scary. People need to be honest & not sugar coat it...it sucks. Plain & simple. Unless the OPs are involved in the health care field, they are going to struggle.

The crime there is bad but being smart plays a big role. I've never bashed FMs on crime. It is what it is...in todays world you have to be cautious no matter who you are or where you live.

As for CC...just not my cup of tea.

It's the images of being in paradise b/c it's sunny & warm that convince people that they'll overcome every obstacle. That's delusional & unhealthy. That is why some of this crap has even happened in the first place. People need to be honest with themselves & do a budget & know what they will do if they are unemployed.

Again, this is not a couple retiring, but needing to generate income and send their kids to school. I don't care if they were moving to Park Ave in NYC...it still takes tremendous research & thought. Your kids don't get educated by the sun

[TANaples]

I am not going to address the academic issues of Florida versus other states. I work for the Collier School District. However, I WILL address the schools situation from the financial crisis they are all facing now. Lee County lost over 2,000 kids last year. That means Lee had to give back the money per student to the state. The state is cutting back funding to the school districts. They are in crisis mode right now and are facing major layoffs. It happened last year (both Lee and Collier), but next year will be worse unless they get funding somehow. There is talk about trying to go to court to suspend the state limit on maximum class size. Eliminate teachers and you will have to increase class sizes.

It is not pretty now and it can very possibly be even worse next year.

[th3vault]

Originally Posted by 121804

Sad that there is even such a rating, but the midwest & southwest are not the north Most who compare the schools on this board are talking about MA, NY, NY, CT which far exceed FL's...but, thanks for the rankings? Did you get a year b/c I know FL's moved up a little last year.

For so long, SWFL's main drive was retirees. And SWFL gated retiree communities are notoriously known for their feelings on young children And they have every right...a person just has to be ready for the "welcome" that is anything but with many of the retirees in that area.

Things are rough mostly everywhere. To move right now requires research of extraordinary levels & a backup plan. Things are just too volatile to not be prepared 150%.

The issue with FM is the employment issue. An unemployment rate that has tripled in the last two years is scary. People need to be honest & not sugar coat it...it sucks. Plain & simple. Unless the OPs are involved in the health care field, they are going to struggle.

The crime there is bad but being smart plays a big role. I've never bashed FMs on crime. It is what it is...in todays world you have to be cautious no matter who you are or where you live.

As for CC...just not my cup of tea.

It's the images of being in paradise b/c it's sunny & warm that convince people that they'll overcome every obstacle. That's delusional & unhealthy. That is why some of this crap has even happened in the first place. People need to be honest with themselves & do a budget & know what they will do if they are unemployed.

Again, this is not a couple retiring, but needing to generate income and send their kids to school. I don't care if they were moving to Park Ave in NYC...it still takes tremendous research & thought. Your kids don't get educated by the sun

I know... the Northeast does have much better schools than Florida, I'm not even going to try disputing that.

But a LOT of the people on the Gulf Goast are from the Midwest...and it irks me when they keep going on and on about how FL schools are so bad and OH/MI/IL schools are SO much better.... if your from the NE or Mid-Atlantic complaining about FL schools, I suppose you have a point. But these people from the Midswest that keep bashing FL schools don't really have a leg to stand on....

The SW states were there to show how the "alternative transient" states compared to Florida.

You are right about the retirees....I'd view any community that's gated with suspicion.