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Old 05-22-2010, 03:36 PM
 
41 posts, read 147,823 times
Reputation: 24

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With all the money we fork over to every country that sneeze's I don't understand why we don't have people from every country in the world down here in the gulf trying to figure out how to stop this. If they can figure out how to get the damn oil out of the ocean why can't they have a plan AHEAD of drilling for a diaster like this. Before given permission to drill they should have a solid plan to present how how to stop or prevent this kind of thing in the first place. This isn't the first time.
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Old 05-22-2010, 04:29 PM
 
29 posts, read 57,325 times
Reputation: 19
we can send men and machines into space.
send crafts to the outer edge of our galaxy
spend billions in the name of establishing "democracy" in nations thousand of miles away, but, we cannot stop oil from leaking from a pipe...
thi$ i$ amazing...
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Fort Myers FL/ Ottawa ON
1,210 posts, read 3,269,302 times
Reputation: 494
BP owns the problem due to legal and regulatory structures. Government simply does not have the capacity to rapidly take ownership of and to organize and solve a problem. For example, the delays in giving a permit to build protective berms in front of the marshes.

Smells to me that BP prefers to have the oil in the gulf rather than captured in tankers. I suspect that the cost of disposing of that oil/water mix is very expensive. The key to understand is that BP is fighting for its survival, the company pension and the executive perks and paycheques. The latter have big mortgages and private school fees to pay every month, and if BP fails, they are looking at severe drops in their standards of living.

So decisions are being made with spreadsheets and financial risk management calculations. What is good for BP is unlikely to be good for America at this point.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:22 AM
 
29 posts, read 57,325 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by kroeran View Post
BP owns the problem due to legal and regulatory structures. Government simply does not have the capacity to rapidly take ownership of and to organize and solve a problem. For example, the delays in giving a permit to build protective berms in front of the marshes.

Smells to me that BP prefers to have the oil in the gulf rather than captured in tankers. I suspect that the cost of disposing of that oil/water mix is very expensive. The key to understand is that BP is fighting for its survival, the company pension and the executive perks and paycheques. The latter have big mortgages and private school fees to pay every month, and if BP fails, they are looking at severe drops in their standards of living.

So decisions are being made with spreadsheets and financial risk management calculations. What is good for BP is unlikely to be good for America at this point.
finally someone who is articulating the obvious.
Someone may want to tap Admiral Thad Allen on the shoulder and make him aware of this as he's all over the news niavely expressing how "co-operative" BP is and how much (admiration and) trust he has for its CEO.. 30+ days into the "leak"
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,268 posts, read 18,825,160 times
Reputation: 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by yachtcare View Post
I'm aware of who the CinC is, but the oath still goes to the Constitution, not the individual. The Whermacht swore their oath directly to Adolf Hitler
I think Adolph Hitler has been mentioned more times since 2008 than in the past 70 years. Wish everyone was as concerned back in 1939. Speaking on behalf of my Jewish ancestors, some of the 6 million who were systematically exterminated, along with more than 10 million others murdered, including Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gypsies, homosexuals, disabled persons, children, anyone who openly expressed opposition to the Third Reich, millions of citizens in Poland, Russia and France, it is insulting every time Obama is compared with Hitler. It's also stupid.

This has nothing to do with the thread topic, but I just thought I'd mention it.
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:23 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,268 posts, read 18,825,160 times
Reputation: 7982
Default No accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldoncreek View Post
we can send men and machines into space.
send crafts to the outer edge of our galaxy
spend billions in the name of establishing "democracy" in nations thousand of miles away, but, we cannot stop oil from leaking from a pipe...
thi$ i$ amazing...
Getting back to the topic.... What's that expression most of us heard from our mothers when we were children? Think it was "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

BP made a 135% profit in the first quarter of 2010 compared to 2009. I got this information directly from BP's own website. This means BP made huge profits in 3 months. Why didn't a small percentage of this go into better safety equipment or a system that would prevent or minimize this type of devastation? 11 people were killed, which is bad enough. Their bodies have never been found. To me, this is a criminal act, not an "accident." Just like when a drunk with several DUIs travels south in the northbound lane, killing a family of 5, continuous safety violations are not accidents. As this article shows, the BP really stood for [URL="http://www.truthout.org/how-bushs-doj-killed-a-criminal-probe-into-bp-that-threatened-net-top-officials59648"]Beyond Prosecution.[/URL]

Also, although I'm sure others have ranted about this before, I'm getting sick of the euphemisms. When I poured my coffee this morning, some of it "spilled" and a small amount "leaked" from the canister. A spill doesn't disintegrate 11 men. It was never an oil spill. Looking at the video of the BP well, it reminds me of [URL="http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Science/Images/mount-st-helens-eruption.jpg"]this,[/URL] only under water. (BTW, that's a pic of Mount Saint Helens erupting.)
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:08 PM
 
Location: North Central Florida
6,218 posts, read 7,688,521 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by justNancy View Post
I think Adolph Hitler has been mentioned more times since 2008 than in the past 70 years. Wish everyone was as concerned back in 1939. Speaking on behalf of my Jewish ancestors, some of the 6 million who were systematically exterminated, along with more than 10 million others murdered, including Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gypsies, homosexuals, disabled persons, children, anyone who openly expressed opposition to the Third Reich, millions of citizens in Poland, Russia and France, it is insulting every time Obama is compared with Hitler. It's also stupid.

This has nothing to do with the thread topic, but I just thought I'd mention it.
Sorry if you are offended Nancy

Frankly, NO comparison was made, other than the one you obviously imagined in your mind. A statement of fact was made.....anything over and above that was a function of your own thought process.

Compare my rather benign statement, and the context in which it was made, to this article, for some contrast between statements, and comparisons. Obama leads America’s goose-stepping march towards a fascist state | Capitol Hill Blue

Obviously some think they should be concerned today, since they werent back in 1939? According to that second sentence of your post, it seems you agree that that's a good thing...right?




It appears that BP is now delaying for another day(until Wednesday)to try to plug the leak with mud and concrete..........

One wonders if BP is doing all they can, and if they arent, why? It seems they have done irrepairable damage to their image already..........have they taken the attitude of why rush to contain the damage, other than to their bottom line, and stockholders portfolios. Much like Exxon, and Captain Hazlewood two decades ago, BP's exploits in the Gulf of Mexico will haunt us long into the future............

Went to the doggie beach this morning, a few brief conversations with folks there seemed to reveal a theme............we're here to enjoy the beach, and take in the view before it turns black and gooey. Then I ran into an old business associate I hadnt seen in years. He will be finishing up some schooling in December, as he has been unemployed for three years. He says he has tried to hang into this area, as he's been here since the '80's. Thru the lean years, the boom, and back to a lingering crash, he has stayed the course in SW Florida..............but oil fouled beaches will be the final straw...........if (or when) it comes to that he'll pack up and move on.

Wonder how many more will be forced, or will simply finally just throw in the towel on this area over this mess? At the moment it still appears that we in SW Fl may be spared for a while at least.

While there has been plenty of speculation of what kind of impact this will have........... This morning, standing on the beach, and discussing it with others, put a "face" on the enormity of this thing.

YC.......
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Cape Coral
5,503 posts, read 7,292,859 times
Reputation: 2249
Try this........


YouTube - Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry Be Happy
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:50 PM
 
Location: North Central Florida
6,218 posts, read 7,688,521 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikoshaprl View Post
Didnt say I was "worried" about it.

It is just another (potential) reason to add to all the other reasons to steer clear of SW Florida.

YC.......
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Fort Myers FL/ Ottawa ON
1,210 posts, read 3,269,302 times
Reputation: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldoncreek View Post
finally someone who is articulating the obvious.
Someone may want to tap Admiral Thad Allen on the shoulder and make him aware of this as he's all over the news niavely expressing how "co-operative" BP is and how much (admiration and) trust he has for its CEO.. 30+ days into the "leak"
yeah, ...but he is being a good bureaucrat by putting a happy face on everything and being a "good guy to work with"...not a "trouble maker".

after the horse is out of the barn, if he is still in that job, he will express shock and dismay that BP was deceiving him

all the while, he may be a naive "true believer", or he may be a realist, fully aware of the ineffectiveness of government to so much as tie its shoelaces.

if government takes over the problem, failure is certain...if BP is left to work the problem, there is at least some hope that something useful may happen

the invisible hand of capitalism can be clumsy and it screws up a lot...however, the visible hand of bureacracy screws up by design

this is what Rand is getting at
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