Fort Worth passes partial smoking ban (Center, West: condos, hotels, travel)

[Guingirl]

No disrespect intended, but again I'll state my position that I think it is a huge loss for business.

I used to live in California, if we follow them we be closing down bars and businesses to put in "medicinal" pot places. Then we will have to hear from all the old hippies how "no MAN...its really a lot better for you than stupid cigarettes...Mannnnn".

[Soccersupporter]

Originally Posted by Guingirl

Actually as a previous smoker and ex-Californian, I think it is pretty terrible. I am a big market forces person. If it needs to be banned, then ban it all the way...make it illegal, but then you can't have that tax money.

If you don't like smoking, don't patronize that establishment.

There was a guy on the tv last night with a WAD of chew in his mouth saying that he was upset that it wasn't enough. My thought is when they start banning one thing, it will only be a matter before they start banning other things...are transfats on the way? They did that in NYC...so hey...why not here??

I came to Texas because I always thought that Texans stood up for freedom and a live and let live attitude for things that are legal. You won't really hear an uproar until someone decides that they want to ban alcohol. Its legal, kills millions of people, but there is a lot bigger constituency that would actually speak out/flip out if there was talk of prohibition.

Economist Walter Williams states it as "cooking a frog...you can't put a frog in a hot pot or it will jump out, you put it in the pot then slowly turn up the temperature and before the frog knows it he is cooked". If you aren't watching closely enough our frog will be cooked .

I am a non-smoker and in fact have never smoked a cigarette but I agree that the consumer should be the deciding factor. If restaurants want to go no-smoking to improve business then it should be their call. We would not go to restaurants that did not at least have a non-smoking section but that is our choice.

[beowulf7]

I agree w/ Roma but understand the position of Guin and Soccer. I normally don't like the gov.'t to interfere and act as our Big Bro. But in this case, since it's such a critical health issue that affects others (i.e. not just the smoker), I'm all for strict smoking bans in public venues (i.e outside of one's private residence).

Guin, I disagree that it's a huge loss for businesses, at least in the long term. From the studies I read when CA and NY past their smoking bans, businesses suffered in the short term, but in the long term, they were making as much $, if not more than prior to the smoking ban. I remember hearing about that when NJ went through the same ordeal in early 2006. Now that NJ has been smoke free for almost 2 years, I'm sure they went through the same cycle (using CA and NY as a historic reference), but businesses are now back to the levels seen before the ban, if not higher, although I haven't read any updated studies on it.

[Guingirl]

Well you won't find a whole bunch of smokers out there protesting because honestly, they aren't that type of people. Honestly, they just suck it up and move on for the most part. They aren't the whiner type. But such as with liberty, if you don't pay attention it can be taken away and eventually lead to tyranny.

I still haven't seen any legitimate and trusted (read: unpolitical) studies that have indicated that second hand smoke causes cancer. Is it stinky?? Yah it is and I hate it! I don't like being smelly.

But if you go back to the states of CA and NY, they are starting to want to legislate smoking on private property (in your own home). Once that happens, LOOK out!

Anyway, the law is the law now and its a moot point to really discuss it because it ends up one side cheering getting in your face and the other side just grumbling.

[beowulf7]

When NJ passed the law, there was a huge hoopla about it and one of the radio DJs promoted a 100 Stripper March in Trenton to complain to then-Gov. Codey. It got a lot of publicity, but the Gov. signed the bill anyway.

A fellow at my company was a victim of 2nd hand smoke. He had never smoked, but was surrounded in that environment growing up. He wound up needing surgery to remove the cancer. Last I heard, he was recovering well and fortunately, the cancer was caught early enough. So yes, 2nd hand smoke definitely causes cancer.

I agree that the gov.'t should not enforce what people do in their own homes. I'd def. vote against such a bill. Whatever you want to do within your own house is fine by me, as long as it's not illegal. As long as smoking is legal, I support smokers' right to clog up their lungs in their house.

[AgainsttheBan]

Well I am a smoker and I dont think this smoking ban is right. I think more smokers should quit going out to eat at these places. Maybe if we all quit going and acting like what they are doing with this ban is right then we would be heard. Are we next going to hear that people can no longer wear perfume, or cologne. Because the last time I checked that bothers people allergies and asthma. (And if you dont believe that then go to your nearest ENT doctor and ask them).

I think if you want to ban something then work on the problem with alcohol. Smoking causes 1 in 5 deaths but drunk drivers kill more people than that. Or are we going to go back to how things were long ago and starting saying that people of other races are not allowed in these astablishments.... Really what is the difference?

My whole problem with this is that they are taking my rights away. Last year they made it to where places had to have a seperate room and specific ventilation systems. So I guess those places wasted their money. But if they make smoking illegal, which is what they make it look like they are trying to do, then the state/cities will be losing money. ( There will be no more taxes from cigarettes going to schools or this or that.) What will they want then, are they going to raise your property taxes so they still get the same amount of money??

You may not like me smoking around you and you may think it might one day kill you. And thats fine because what you're not looking at is that everytime you walk outside it kills you. Smog is worse than smoking but you dont hear people complaining about that. But people dont want it to where they can no longer drive their cars, do they??? alcohol is much worse than smoking so why doesnt this country worry about that or how many homeless people we have on our streets.

[beowulf7]

^ I understand your frustration, but there's so much exaggeration, I don't know where to begin. I'll just say that there's no way in hell that smoking kills fewer people per year than drunk drivers. Sure, drunk drivers are a big problem on the roads, but smoking/tobacco kills more. By far, but obviously not as quickly as drunks kill.

And as I mentioned before, I'm all for allowing people to smoke (and even do drugs, for that matter, but that's a different issue) in their private residence. I don't foresee the US government banning smoking altogether, esp. not in TX.

[New2Keller]

I didn't really want to jump in on this discussion because everyone seems to have a very strong opinion BUT maybe I should just say that I think smoking around non smokers and children is just awful and I am so happy to see that Fort Worth is taking action. I am from CA so people smoking in buildings is just a faint memory. I understand that smokers don't like having their freedoms taken away by the govt but I sure the heck don't like having smoke in my face while I eat dinner with my family! Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool!

If one wants to smoke in their own homes, then so be it! I've had to watch several family members die awful and painful deaths at the hands of lung cancer, but to each their own I suppose. Of course there are other dangers in the world and of course the air we breathe isn't perfect but that is a far cry from someone smoking 5 feet from me and causing me to cough and feel sick while I try to eat! I think smokers are so consumed with "their rights" that they forget that they are doing something that is immediately causing discomfort for the non smokers around them. I'm a very healthy person and don't have any kind of asthma, allergies etc, but If I even step foot in a room with cigarette smoke, I have a sore throat and cough for the rest of the day. I can't imagine how kids or people with breathing problems feel. Just my 2 cents.

[Guingirl]

On the contrary, smokers have been chastised for many years and made to feel like outcasts. Any other segment of society that has been treated the way they have would have been asking for reperations by now .

There is another component to this argument that I think is important and one I am particularly sensitive. I think by migrating here (Im from CA too), we need to be aware not to change things too much. I always disliked when people had moved into our area and then didn't agree with the way that we had lived for many years, and came in and changed things.

I moved her for a better way of life, the good with the bad. If we really want to do something important, we need to crack down on all the crime, but that is probably for another post .

[Gretchen_SDCA]

Originally Posted by Jammie

I agree with Guinn. I'm a smoker (don't smoke much for the past 8 years, but I still do). They've made it so smokers are afraid to speak up anymore because they're shunned. They say that smoking causes so many diseases and smokers have so many colds, pnuemonia, etc. What do they expect when they make smokers stand outside in corners year round? Of course, cold weather won't give you a cold, but consider the "chill" factor that involves your body fighting to stay warm OR reverse in the heat. You're then more vulnerable to viruses.

And as far as suggestions in many areas and from a lot of people about banning smoking outside? It's ridiculous.

It seems we all have our vice. Maybe someone is an overeater or gorges themselves on Big Macs. It's not healthy. Should we ban those things? How about alcohol? Statistically, alcohol kills many more people a year then smoking does. Innocent victims of alcohol-related accidents are having their rights infringed on, too. Should we ban booze? Should we ban the unhealthy foods?

Unfortunately, non-smokers will see this as a good thing. Can't wait to see how they feel when they lose their rights to something they enjoy.

You are confusing the issues. There is no doubt that overeating and alcohol causes a great many problems. The reason why smoking is outlawed is because it has a DIRECT effect on non-smokers through secondary inhalation.

Abuse of alcohol is punished (perhaps arguably not enough) through public intoxication, DUI laws etc. However, the average person enjoying a glass or two has no DIRECT effect on the person next to him/her.

Even though I don't live in TX (but travel there on business), I applaud Ft. Worth! You bet I don't want someone smoking next to me. I am not a smoking Nazi - if you want to smoke in your own home or even in the open air (provided you are far enough from the entrance to a building), that is your prerogative. But why should I put up with disgusting smoke in my lungs, because you might get cold? Put a coat on or smoke at home.