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We have decided on Westlake because of the Westlake Academy schools, we like the IB program, now the question is where to live in Westlake? Glenwick Farms or Vaquero, Anybody familiar with both? We are moving from HP.
We toured both today, Glenwick looks more appealing you are right in terms of how much house you get for the money, Vaquero is a bit more expensive and it has this inclusive/exclusive feel to it which I am not sure we like. We don't want to be that secluded. The country club makes things tough because its just 1st class in everything they do, you feel like you are in am upscale resort. Exclusive resort style living or a great house in a very nice community?
IMO--and I am certainly not in the market to buy in that price point--
if both developments are gated
what about the city's responsibility for the maintenance of roads, storm drains, issues like that...
You know that some parts of Vaquero are in Keller ISD, don't you--not automatically in Westlake--that is considered not as desireable as being in the Carroll ISD frankly at this point in time...
how about the HOA assoc in each one--look at the HOA rules/assessments VERY carefully for any differences and what those differences might mean to home owners--
how are directors elected--these can become very influencial once the development is closed and the HOA controls the subdivision--can the same board stand for election over and over--IMO that could be a problem--how can homeowners overrule the decisions of the HOA, how are the dues/fees assessed-
the golf course could be a major expense and liability if people come to resent the environmental concerns of supporting one but it could also be an important factor if you decide to resell because of the country club aspect---Mira Vista owners in S FTW are turing their golf course into a private one which should have an uptick effect on their homes value...although they also are assuming more of a financial burder to support its costs....
Personally the topography would have a lot to do with which development I felt would hold value longer/better--which one has more native trees, wider streets, better design of open areas--better appreciation for "green" gardening--larger lots since these are large houses--and appreciation for the privacy element in constructing homes from one lot to the next--some builders just build what they want and screw the houses around ...
look at the natural flow of the land--which one has more visual appeal for variety and naturalness--you say you "like" Glynwick because it is more appealing--try to articulate why that appeal is stronger--is it because the interiors/exteriors of home appeal to you--is it because of the visual appeal of the development--native trees are tremendous value esthetically as well as for any energy saving effect they bring--having them cannot be underestimated for future appeal...landscaping trees will grow but that takes time--
I would look at he variety of design--because builders usually use the same architect they tend to build the same type of spec house---architects have a "look" usually that marks their designs...especially if it is a builder spec home and not buyer designed...
personally I would favor a development with some variety in style but not something that looks like a theme park--lately the Tuscan Texan/Mediterrnean is the hot market item--stucco and tile roofs--but having too many homes with that facade could date that development in 5-10-20 years...and some fall into the European look like French Country--and some into that ubiquitous expensive TX home with the HIGH pitched roofs and lots of peaks and valleys----
frankly I would definitely look at garages--I know that sounds stupid but people who live in houses this expensive have a lot of cars--how are they parking them--even with larger lots, you can't assume that people will park cars out of sight--there is open fencing--no privacy fences---
I think any house with a 3 car garage in this price point is downscale--most people will have children with cars or even have live in help--with larger lots there should be provisions for parking cars out of sight and that means 4 or even 5 car garage--even if one is detached...so the development with the MOST 4 car garages is one that I think would have better future appeal...
whatever house you buy--it MUST have piered beam slab--because that is considered the "best"--not to mention because of how heavy these homes are and the elevations/soil construction in that part of Tarrant co...decided short fall if it does not have a piered beam slab---
Also--some of these homes are showing to have a variety of floor levels--
that is not going to be good selling point in the future--so try to make sure there are no step-ups or down on the ground floor at least...
ENERGY feature--yes even for someone who can afford to buy this house now--who knows that tomorrow will bring--maybe a surcharge on people with excessive living space--
look for foam insulation, insulated exterior wrap, higher quality windows, having an insulated slab -- builder should be doing something to build an energy efficient house...
and conserve water--drip irrigation system--rain catch basin--LED low energy lighting--
which one is likely to be impacted by the development of Ross Peroit's Westlake land--already they are working on changing Ottinger and Dove to facilitate a new business coming to the area--there will be other development there--how will each development be affected with future traffic flow and invasion of "outsiders" since there will be retail as well as silent business like Fidelity's office complex....
you might think "none" but there will be changes...and the development that will be least effected by noise, loss of privacy, increased traffic around the development will be judged better than the other...
finally----and this might sound tacky and too personal --
but you need to really assess how "neighborly" these developments will be--
do you have the wealth not just to buy/sustain this house but the lifestyle that goes with it--and there is a life style to these areas--
if you don't, you may not be very comfortable living in either one--
do you want to know your neighbors--do you expect to be involved in THEIR lives and have them involved in yours---
do you have expectations of behavior and attitudes you don't want to compromise because of where you live
since I don't know you I don't know the answer to those questions
many people buying/living here pay cash and many have seasonal homes---they own their businesses or more than one, instead of work for someone even at a senior level of management--they can do pretty much as they please (and so can their children) and that attitude can sometimes be difficult to deal with if you don't share it and they are not very attunded to those around them
while it is the same for anyone buying a home in a development--new or resale--as to not knowing what you are getting into--I don't think you can ignore the elephant in the room...
Last edited by loves2read; 06-11-2008 at 08:38 AM..
Hi Loves2Read- I really appreciate taking the time to write this, half of things/facts consideration you mentioned we havent even thought of.
I know a couple of things-
-at Vaquero, you have the choice between Westlake academy and Keller ISD (we confirmed this with the schools and the realty office there)- Glynwick, you have the choice between Westlake Academy and Carroll ISD. Advantage Glynwick
- I will look into the HOA rules/regulations for both and who is on the board..Vaquero's is about $3500 per year and glynwick's is under 2k
- Vaquero has very very strict construction guidelines, the houses there are beautiful, well designed, well constructed, every builder is required to put 40k down and go through a board approval process and until the house is built to the guidlines, they wont get their deposit back, and it really shows in the neihborhood. I don't know much about Glynwick guidlines so we will look into it.
We found that Vaquero has more variety in architecture- Tuscan, French Country, Contemporary, Ranch, Mediterenean, Spanish and even Moroccan.
Glynwick seems to be more traditional- brick and slate but still very nice.
As far as the life style goes, we are moving from HP. You know what this place is like..We both work, we have our social circles but we like our privacy- you won't see us walk in and out of our neighbors homes..We like peace/quiet and common respect and curtousey..
The asthetics in Vaquero are very nice, very large and old oak trees are in most lots and homes with elevation changes throughout..beautiful landscape. Glynwick seems to be more flat and not as many trees if at all..but its all reflected in the price- some homes in Vaquero are going for as high as $500 per foot, but they have a rather large inventory which is a little alarming..
As I am writing this, I find myself more and more leaning towards vaquero - but I don't have Veto power- wife and little one will have to vote also..
You gave us a lot of things to think about and consider and I really appreciate it.
several factors going with that large inventory in Westlake (and Southlake)
many of the people who buy in that 1M+ price range fall into maybe 3 categories--
1--there are many people who if they are going to spend 1-2+ M for a house here in TX want more land than an acre lot in a development--they want an ESTATE--so they buy 5-10 acres in Argyle or outside Denton or Aledo or someplace and pay for their privacy
2--people who are really independently wealthy and can afford to pay cash for their house--don't need the mortgage deduction and even if they have another home to sell in another area, don't really need to pull the equity...that is really a small % of people compared to all the people shopping for homes in DFW area and frankly guess most of those people would prefer to buy in Dallas for various reasons including the fact that most people think NW Tarrant co is the boonies...
Westlake is not really on most RELOs map unless they are working for Fidelity or one of the other companies moving out there
3--people with great income and expectations but still are employees--
need the mortgage deduction so will need financing--maybe they have to sell a home somewhere and pull the equity out or just can't qualify for 2 mortgages until they do
This is probably the larger pool of potential customers but it is also the one that has more difficulty getting the deal through--builders probably won't make contract with these owners unless they have financing sewn up...and saw one house listed in MLS that did have contract fall through--that is big, BIG hit for builder who has completed house with his financing coming due...
when the subprime mortgage crunch hit financing for big income people needing big mortgages shrank up like guys jumping into Lake Winnipesaukee ---
but builders were committed--they had bought lots and committed to their spec homes for the year--remember that building a home in Vacquero and other high end developments takes time--many homes that are 4-5K sq ft in normal neighborhood take 5-7 mo +/- ---building a home in Vacq or Glynwyck probably take a year or more from the initial beginning---depending on how custom it is and other variables--builders have to have legs to stand up under that stress--financial, physical, logistical---
they had pulled the brake on the roller coaster when the housing car was at the top of the loop--so they had to continue to build and hope the market would bounce back...
our realtor has been in RE in this area for more than 30 years probably--she does almost exclusively RELO -- and does lots of high-end buyers...more in the 600-900K range probably because there are more people IN that range but also some million$$$ buyers....last year was slow---she was showing lots of people homes and they found ones to buy but could not offer/close because their home in CA or Chicago or someplace else was not selling and they had to free the equity/purchasing power...she works with some of the high-end builders in Southlake like Conn-Anderson--lists their new construction--
she says there were plenty of people willing to pay a million or so cash for a home but they were VERY particular and would go to all the open houses and wander through new construction but did not want to try to build a house from scratch--go figure....
couple of weeks ago she was working with under 40s couple from CA moving here=wife bought a business in this area--they had estate home they had sold in CA but were keeping their 6 acre horse farm--they bought house in Southlake for a little over 1.5M--could afford to put down the 10% NON-refundable earnest money builder required w/o having to line up financing like the 3 other couples that wanted to put in contract--
so business is picking up...
but if you look at this link--you see a foreclosed home in Vaquero Real Estate Data Display
still needing to be finished out--so there are still problems
while Keller ISD does not have the cache of Carroll--and frankly I don't think it will for the forseeable future--if you are moving for Westlake Academy the ISD might be moot--because I think Vaquero is really better than other developments--it is the grand dame so to speak and sets the water mark that others judge themselves and are judged against
if you can afford it and don't want to buy raw acerage to build on
then that is the way to go IMO....would get your realtor to make list of all available properties by builder and see how long they have been on the market--some of these guys build custom homes that they don't usually have to finance but their spec homes they do--and they could have inventory in Southlake or in Frisco-some of them might be starting to feel the pinch and let a house go at a good price--
hope your realtor knows how to work this market...
Last edited by loves2read; 06-12-2008 at 09:25 AM..
They are building a four lane road right outside the front gate of Vaquero. This is going to KILL the property values in there, due to noise and odor, particularly for the houses near the front (Precinct Line Road side). Real bummer.
Southlakejim is correct. The Davis Blvd expansion is now half-complete. I must say that part of Vaquero's tranquility was taken away as Davis now travels from 114 all the way to 820. Not a good thing for Vaquero IMO.
River Hills is a beautiful high dollar home neighborhood in SW Fort Worth with good schools. In fact the Fort Worth, Texas Magazine Dream Home Tour house for this year is located in that neighborhood. They are building a toll way in the area, but I don't think it will have more impact than I-20 and 183 which are minimal.
Just depends on what kind of life style you want to live, but there are other options than Westlake and Southlake.
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