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people--nurses don't take work home during the week, they don't grade on Saturday night or Sunday afternoon, they don't make calls to parents for several hours a week at night about bad grades, poor attendance, referrals....it is easy to see the work that coaches put in outside of school--but most teachers spend AT LEAST one hour a night after school working--and more often 2-3 to just keep up with what they need to do in the classroom...
nurses don't spend money out of their own pocket to buy supplies or decorate their work environment
You can't extrapolate what you don't get paid for--
teachers' salaries are prorated over 12 months for the convenience and checkbook of the ISD--not the teachers--they money they get in August is money they earned in June--the school district has had the benefit of holding a portion of their 10 mo paycheck for an extra two months...
Teachers get paid for teachng a certain # of days in the school calendar and a few professional development days--
their summer time, their Christmas vacation and other holiday pay are technically NOT paid holidays--
This forum is really funny. I am 22 years old and I graduated from a state university in Pennsylvania in May. I just signed with Fort Worth Independent School District for $47,500 salary. I am also the Tennis Coach and I assistant coach cheer-leading. Each teacher receives a stipend that is prorated throughout the school year. For coaching I will get about $5,300 stipend. You can also receive stipends for various certifications such as math and chemistry. Each one is about $2,000 a year. If you have two of these types of certifications that is another $4,000 a year. I myself am a chemistry/physics/astronomy teacher and will be obtaining certifications in math this year. So next year my total pay with all of my stipends will be about 56k. I know this does not sound like a lot to some people but I have to say that it affords a comfortable lifestyle, especially if you have a significant other to supplement your income. The problem with this forum is that some people view a comfortable lifestyle as three new cars and a half million dollar home while others are comfortable with a nice apartment rental and mediocre car.
I so agree with you. $56,000 is great even if you didn't have income from a significant other. I love your last sentence. People just really don't get and if they lived simpler lifestyles, they couldn't function without their "status symbols." Perhaps that's a sign of being a bit insecure or ?? Many need that $500,000 home, three cars, et al as status symbols. If the truth be known, most of them are probably in debt up to their ears. How profoundly sad.
Each teacher receives a stipend that is prorated throughout the school year.
False--projecting YOUR experience as the norm--
only teachers who take on extra work such as coaching, acting as sponsor to school activity like StuCo or Debate team EARN extra salary via stipends--
you are not GIVEN that money--you work for it...
don't demean what you do outside the classroom...
If you prorate out your stipends as hourly pay based on the extra time you will spend for each of your activities--as tennis coach and asst cheer sponson--I think you will find that you are actually making below minimum wage for those hours...because you have practice time daily in addition to game time--
you will spend time doing paperwork for your activities, dealing with parents--sometimes even driving the bus to tennis meets (at least my friend who was asst tennis coach wound up doing that)...and as a cheerleading sponsor you are going to spend time in the gym as girls decorate for pep rallys, riding the bus to games as chaperone, and waiting at the school until the last one goes home...
You were in the right field but you were also willing to take on time-consuming activities that many people --especially married ones with children--don't want to do...
I am glad that you think your 56K is ample reward for your work--I hope you think that way when the year is over...
and remember that is not all take home...
If you were a teacher, I cannot believe how you are talking about the profession. Anyone who says he or she doesn't get paid enough needs to get out of teaching right away. When one accepts such a position, is he or she naive enough to think that time isn't spent at home working on grading papers or whatever? I trust the lady from PA will be just fine when the year is out even though, Heaven forbid, it's not ALL take home pay. I'd be willing to bet her rewards will be the differences she made in the lives of many children.
You see, there are many who choose to be teachers because they care and want to make a difference. There are many who think they are not getting paid what they deserve. Perhaps that would make them do less and not put forth all the effort possible in teaching young people well. There are teachers who teach all children with the same boring, monotone, chalkboard ways. This is not good as all children don't learn the same way. If a teacher cares, he or she will make the effort to find out what works better for Johnny vs. Susie and not dwell on, "Oh my gosh! If I put in all that extra time, I'm only making $2.00 an hour." Adding dealing with parents to that and the pay drops to $1.50.
No, I'm not a teacher, but I work in the Texas school system. I see and hear this nonsense every day and to tell you the truth, it sickens me. I make a lot less than $56,000 a year, and I'm fine with it and live quite a comfortable lifestyle. I do my very best each day and even as an office worker, I take work home, stay late, work some weekends, deal with irate and nutty parents, rude and fussy teens, and don't get an extra dime for any of it. That doesn't matter. My parents taught me work ethics, not the love of money.
What is sad as well is even administrators talk the same talk. "Oh, I have to drive to such and such tonight and monitor the football game." "I have to be back to school the first week in August and July is nearly over." "I could go back to teaching and coaching at such and such district and make more money than I'm making as an administrator." For the sake of all that is good and holy, GAWD, please do!!! Many of them waste so much time "ON THE JOB", they don't deserve (your word) the pay they're receiving anyway.
THEY DON"T WANT TO DO IT! Then don't. Do our youth a favor and go sell cars or something.
If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of Heaven and Earth will pause to say, "Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well." – Martin Luther King Jr.
Do children not deserve the best from a teacher? I think so. Every job is an self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your work with excellence no matter what the pay or what the position.
Last edited by Canine*Castle; 07-20-2010 at 08:42 AM..
You can think anything you want--and make any judgements you like--nothing stopping you but
I taught -- and I taught well--and I did work on weekends and after school at home and I did make a difference in the lives of my students--but I am not stupid--and even if I was an English teacher I can still do math...
English teachers ALWAYS have more take-home work IF they are doing a proper job teaching--because they grade written work that is far more complex than just a multiple choice test or short answer...other teachers depending on what they teach and how they organize their work flow often have little grading to do but there are probably other aspects of their job...
My point to the newbie teacher was that s/he is going to earn every dime of that money--that it is not some largess that the district dispenses like tooth-fairy-money because s/he is a "nice person."
Most new hires leave teaching within 5 years--job stress and financial strain being the top two reasons-
that person is probably an alt-cert -- did no student teaching--and has never really been in a classroom as a teacher--I would like to know how she (likely with the cheerleading job) feels at the end of the year...
IF that person stays in teaching after getings that math cert and gets another boost--s/he is going to pretty much reach that proverbial "salary cap" and will get maybe 1K a year as a raise--and that depends on how the district is doing financially...some districts are considering trying to freeze wages...but the state/TEA probably wont let them...so they will have to RIF teachers/staff to stay in budget if the RE situation does not improve...
The staff at public schools rarely make what a comprable job would earn outside in the workplace but they work at schools mainly because they like the ability to share the same vacation schedules with their own children and they enjoy the working environment of a school--it takes a special person to do that and do it well--the secretaries at a school can make all the difference in the world as to whether it works efficiently or not and they are often the first person the public sees and have a great deal to do with how schools are judged by the public...
so more power to you if you like your job and do it well
I don't know that anything in my post was about doing less of a job because you were paid less than in the business world--I certainly never brought less than my best game--although I know that is not true for all teachers or staff at my school
there is nothing shabby about 56K--but it does not come easy--just wanted the person to understand that it was earned--not a gift...
Actually some people (many who have posted comments on this site even) do believe that teachers are paid for their time off--
because their salaries are deferred over 12 months--some people count that as PAID time--and of course it is--in that teachers get a check in July for work done earlier that year--
but if they were paid for time they did not work their salaries would be larger...
I have friends that are teachers. One in Kansas and one in Texas. The one in Kansas is paid a bit less but has a bigger house. His house is something like $150k and he has a wife and a baby with a 2nd baby on the way. The house is nice! But in my opinion, he has overreached himself with debt loads. My wife isn't a teacher (website designer) but she manages to support her family (husband who draws disability and two young kids) just fine on $26 an hour with a 3 bedroom house in Kansas. My other friend in Texas is struggling because he is paid quite well but lives in a high cost area (Austin) and has two growing teenagers that he just adopted. He is considering trying to get a house that is HUD. It's all about priorities. Really is.
You can think anything you want--and make any judgements you like--nothing stopping you but
I taught -- and I taught well--and I did work on weekends and after school at home and I did make a difference in the lives of my students--but I am not stupid--and even if I was an English teacher I can still do math...
English teachers ALWAYS have more take-home work IF they are doing a proper job teaching--because they grade written work that is far more complex than just a multiple choice test or short answer...other teachers depending on what they teach and how they organize their work flow often have little grading to do but there are probably other aspects of their job...
My point to the newbie teacher was that s/he is going to earn every dime of that money--that it is not some largess that the district dispenses like tooth-fairy-money because s/he is a "nice person."
Most new hires leave teaching within 5 years--job stress and financial strain being the top two reasons-
that person is probably an alt-cert -- did no student teaching--and has never really been in a classroom as a teacher--I would like to know how she (likely with the cheerleading job) feels at the end of the year...
IF that person stays in teaching after getings that math cert and gets another boost--s/he is going to pretty much reach that proverbial "salary cap" and will get maybe 1K a year as a raise--and that depends on how the district is doing financially...some districts are considering trying to freeze wages...but the state/TEA probably wont let them...so they will have to RIF teachers/staff to stay in budget if the RE situation does not improve...
The staff at public schools rarely make what a comprable job would earn outside in the workplace but they work at schools mainly because they like the ability to share the same vacation schedules with their own children and they enjoy the working environment of a school--it takes a special person to do that and do it well--the secretaries at a school can make all the difference in the world as to whether it works efficiently or not and they are often the first person the public sees and have a great deal to do with how schools are judged by the public...
so more power to you if you like your job and do it well
I don't know that anything in my post was about doing less of a job because you were paid less than in the business world--I certainly never brought less than my best game--although I know that is not true for all teachers or staff at my school
there is nothing shabby about 56K--but it does not come easy--just wanted the person to understand that it was earned--not a gift...
I am not judging you. You are making the negative comments towards teaching and focusing on the money, not the occupation. Therefore, you have heard my opinions on such. I would hope a newbie or oldbie (not a word, I know) would earn every bit of their money. I've said it all and I won't repeat myself. I have my thoughts about money vs. work ethics. I rate the latter more important. Obviously, many others do not.
P.S. Nothing in this life comes easy. One must work for it or, like many, take advantage of doing as little as possible and earning as much as they can.
With all do respect l2r, you are quite wrong. MOST jobs have additional work that is considered part of salary. My wife is a home health nurse, and she isn't paid for her nightly scheduling of visits, call backs, medicare approvals, charting, etc. She has to work her share of holidays, and we have to arrange daycare when school is out for summer (which is more than state college tuition, btw). Businessmen work on projects at home; models work out; actors memorize lines; athletes pratice.
A teacher is paid an ANNUAL salary for all the work they do during the school year of 187 days whether they choose to divert their checks or not. My kids elementary teacher does her communication via email from school. She grades papers when the kids are in music, lunch, recess or PE. Her decor has been the same for the past 4 years, and she gets tax credits for the out of pocket stuff. WE pay for all the supplies. In higher grades, how many classes does a teacher teach their subject? 2 or 3 classes a day?
For a starting salary, $56K for 187 eight hour days is darn good scratch around here (over $37 and hour). Plus holidays are off, full bennies with TRS (and no social security), and time off is better than most. Exactly how is that not a good gig?
I'm just wondering what you mean by "family of four"? ..would the other adult in the "family" not be working at least part time as well?, to provide a little more comfort then? 45K isn't bad if one is starting out and has a small child but once the kids are in school, and expenses go up could the other person not work also?, most entry level jobs pay 25K-30K a year...I'm just sayin'....
Ft Worth isn't as cheap as it used to be, yeah you can get a 120K house..looks like a box with plastic countertops and vinyl flooring, and a crappy looking yard..out where you spend and extra 25 bucks a week on gas so it's all relative..
some families choose to have the moms (usually) stay home with young (pre school children)--what ever the job for the working spouse--and I think teachers more than most understand the benefit of that situation--although there are plenty of teachers who are working moms themselves with children in day care situations...
and while nurses and other work groups may have to work on holidays--they usually see a higher pay rate for those days--I would think any nurse/aide/clerical person working Christmas Day at a hospital gets higher rate of pay--the people working the registers at Krogers certainly love working on holidays--I know police/fire/air traffic controllers/lots of others do get more money and people like retail store clerks usually don't--but they are often "part time" help not eligible for overtime
that happens with hourly employees--my husband is "professionally paid" meaning he is exempt employee--and he does work on weekends, after hours and even on vacations for no extra pay...
more employers are going to paying people who used to be "hourly employees" entitled to overtime pay as "annual salary" because it is to the company's financial benefit--that does not make it beneficial to the workers or even society--it is a cheap way to turn employees into wage slaves--where the company can demend more and more and pay less for effort...
just because it happens does not make it "right"--at least to me...
health insurance for family coverage is very expensive deduction for most teachers with dependents--
a single teacher often pays almost nothing for health care because the district has low costs for single households--couples have higher premiums but it is with children that the costs really increase...
there have been times when I was teaching and health care costs to teachers in my district with families went up so much from one year to the next that the teacher was actually taking home LESS money even after the minimum raise from one year to the next...
many districts now self-insure because the costs to get coverage from ins companies was just too prohibitive to be feasible--and insurance costs are one of the largest parts of a district's personnel budget...which is true for most any business with as many people as a school district
that situation could be taken care of if the state would let districts pool themselves and get insurance coverage for multiple districts with a larger risk pool but the insurance companies don't want that to happen because they make more profits covering one district at a time--so they have lobbied for decades to prevent that modification by the state insurance board and the legislature...and have been very successful...
Teachers holidays are OFF--not paid--days
my husband has PAID holidays at his job--the Postal Service has PAID holidays--I bet most of the people posting on this thread have PAID holidays--
want to give them up and see a drop in your salaries since those are days you aren't working?
"full bennies" with TRS--that is not a gift--I and every other teacher collecting their retirement have worked for it--we have paid into the system for long period of time with money and sweat equity-and we pay a fair share of the cost to provide those benefits--
I still pay close to 600 a month for the A level health care coverage for myself and my husband...
and I have not had a cost of living increase in my retirement pay since I retired 7 years ago now because the legislature will not vote for it and I don't expect to see one as long as we have a Republican driven governorship or Legislature--
Some districts in TX do pay into SS AND teacher retirement system--but in my district we did not
SO I will have MY own personal SS pension funded by working at other jobs besides teaching reduced by a third because of the "Offset provision" mandated by Congress...
of course--Congress does not handicap its own pension recipients in that way--
Teachers' retirement has done well for its members because the legislature has only minor control over our pension funds--IF the legislature EVER gets control over the teachers' pension we are just screwed...
--we can't even get the Attorney General to pass out the money the Legislature actually voted for retired teachers and appropriated as a one time bonus--that large amount of money went back into the general fund to be spend on other things deemed more important...
and I say again--most people do not consider it a sustainable future to start a job earning 57K (and usually 10K less) and work ten years at the same job and make maybe 10K more--which can be whittled away with rising cost of deductions
the fact that teachers do it just shows that for most of them money is not the motivating factor
for many, many people the job security of a teaching position is strong motivation for going into teaching when they have been laid off in another field--that is pushing many of the alt-cert candidates going into teaching in the past 2-3 years--and certainly in the last year or so
if the economy ever gets better some of them will likely leave teaching (if they found a job) because they will see better opportunity for themselves but some might stay because they genuinely like the job...
and there are going to be teachers in this state that are RIFed--many other states have seen it happen in the past couple of years--and the "forward thnking" policymakers want to see those reductions not protected by senority or tenure--so job security is going to be more tenuous going forward than in the past...
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