As a Fort Worth native I have never considered Fort Worth to be "Where the West begin" Please Chime in (Dallas: university, association)

[hypocore]

Yeah, my in laws will argue to the death of anyone that NO ONE makes BBQ like Memphis...where they are all natives. They consider it a Memphis thing....not a southern thing! haha

[catman]

At the time of the Confederacy, the eastern part of Texas was the only part with much population, and it is the "southern" part. As a native Fort Worthian, I think Fort Worth is "where the West begins". Dallas is only 30 miles east, but it's definitely more Southern than Western.

Fort Worth is where the West begins...Dallas is where the East peters out.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by loves2read

the state food pretty much says it all
IF Texas were a Southern state, we would BBQ with pork--we don't--we use BEEF--
Beef is not the BBQ meat of the South--
the South--from FL to Memphis to SC-- those states use PORK...you can't find decent brisket anywhere there
ergo...Texas is a Western state...

I can't resist though, Loves2read, that if Texas were a "Western" state...then BBQ would not be a staple at all! You make some very large leaps of "ergo" logic here!

Texas is very much part of the so-called Southern "BBQ Belt".

Of course, you have a good point about beef vs. pork...and the fact most in Texas is beef is one of those things that make us unique! Yet....as in the rest of the South though, Texas BBQ (beef or pork) is a verb, not a noun! That is to say, a process whose roots are of the southeastern United States.

You don't find many true "BBQ joints" in the West. Per capita...almost like "catfish joints" (of which no doubt Texas is Southern)...they are are almost non-existent out or up that way.

Ergo? Texas is Southern!..?

[subslug]

Originally Posted by Dangerfield

People who claim Fort Worth is a Western city don't know the West, South or Fort Worth.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but there is a right and wrong answer to the subject of this thread. Right being Fort Worth leans far more Southern than Western.

In your opinion anyway.

I've been to Sacramento California and it's striking how much Fort Worth looks and feels like Sacramento in a lot of ways.

The topic just asks you to "chime in" not force your opinion.

[Eric S]

Originally Posted by catman

Fort Worth is where the West begins...Dallas is where the East peters out.

LOL

-Eric

[First24]

Originally Posted by subslug

In your opinion anyway.

I've been to Sacramento California and it's striking how much Fort Worth looks and feels like Sacramento in a lot of ways.

Examples? Especially the feel part.

I've never heard that Fort Worth and Sacramento were similer prior to your post.

The topic just asks you to "chime in" not force your opinion.

Point noted and you're right.

[loves2read]

BBQ itself comes from the Mexican barbacoa process although I am sure that all cultures have cooked meat over coals so you can't saw that this is only from Mexico
and in Mexico mutton, goat, and cow's head (and pork) in different areas of Mexico are traditional meats used and that process also involves wrapping the meat in maguay leaves and boiling or steaming it as well...so we have deviated from the traditional process

frankly, you can have your opinion and document as much as you like---I am not going to change my mind that TX is a southern state

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by loves2read

BBQ itself comes from the Mexican barbacoa process although I am sure that all cultures have cooked meat over coals so you can't saw that this is only from Mexico
and in Mexico mutton, goat, and cow's head (and pork) in different areas of Mexico are traditional meats used and that process also involves wrapping the meat in maguay leaves and boiling or steaming it as well...so we have deviated from the traditional process

Yes, many places claim to be the "cradle" of BBQ! LOL My point was that most of the Texas BBQ tradition is of Southern roots and origins and is generally accepted as part of the so-called Southern Barbeque Belt. Even though, yes, there are certainly other influences.

frankly, you can have your opinion and document as much as you like---I am not going to change my mind that TX is a southern state

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Just as I am mine. Which is that Texas is essentially a Southern state. Not a typical Southern state (whatever one means by that) by any means, but basically Southern in the sense it shares (as LBJ put it) a common heritage and outlook with the South that differs considerably from the Northeast, Midwest and Far West.

In the long run, it is all only opinion (and yeah, biases), anyway. There is no scientifically proveable "right answer" at all.

[subslug]

Originally Posted by Dangerfield

Examples? Especially the feel part.

I've never heard that Fort Worth and Sacramento were similer prior to your post.

You ever just gotten tired of a topic?

This one has given me tired head so, I'll just agree to whatever the majority decides.

It's pretty hard to explain how or why a place gives you a feeling, it either does or it doesn't.

cheers

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Dangerfield

Culturally, the size and history of Texas' African-American population alone, tells me this state is more Southern than Western.

Texas, along with Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Louisiana etc.. are states crazy about College Football. The West outside of USC enclaves in LA, gernerally could care less about the sport.

Both of these points are very good ones. Like many things which "prove" a states basic regional affiliation, they may seem trivial, but yet are very relevant.

Unlike the true West, Texas has always had a significant non-migrant African American population. Because of the more recent hispanic immigration, the percentage has decreased over the years but no doubt of the entrenched impact on Texas' basic character.

Football, of course, is very notable. High School and College football is almost an obscession in the Texas and the South. Not so much in the West.

Church membership is another area (which I think KD mentioned). Most of Texas is very much part of the Southern Bible Belt, whereas the "West" (as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau) is the region where church membership is less than any other part of the country.

But oh well...! LOL