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When I retired, I moved to a small city, in which I would not need a car. I chose an apartment in a quiet residential location in which I could walk on safe streets in less than 30 minutes to two supermarkets, a library, a drug store, a hospital, a thrift shop, several restaurants. I rarely need to go anywhere else. The local bus service runs every 30 minutes on four routes, it costs seniors 50c a ride. I no longer pay any of the costs associated with a car.
^^This is the way to go^^. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a setup like this in most American cities (hence, my griping). It helps that you're retired, so work is out of the equation. If work were part of the equation, you'd probably still have to have a car.
When I retired, I moved to a small city, in which I would not need a car. I chose an apartment in a quiet residential location in which I could walk on safe streets in less than 30 minutes to two supermarkets, a library, a drug store, a hospital, a thrift shop, several restaurants. I rarely need to go anywhere else. The local bus service runs every 30 minutes on four routes, it costs seniors 50c a ride. I no longer pay any of the costs associated with a car.
This is a very good idea, and one I agree with. As I posted previously, I choose to drive my car where I need to go, but here in my city if I for any reason could not drive could probably manage by walking and buses. It's a fairly small city with a lot of amenities, just not that bicycle/pedestrian friendly for the most part unless you live right downtown. But my neighborhood is reasonably close to things and I don't have to drive too far. Maybe when I am a lot older and/or my husband retires I will give my car up for good.
There is currently a thread on my local forum full of bitter complaints about traffic on the north-south artery through the metro region. But God forbid anybody suggest that there might be another way to live and work around here! The most vociferous complainers can come up with a thousand reasons why it's not possible to make changes. I wish they'd all just own their decision to drive and the consequences thereof rather than blaming everybody else for the difficult commute.
That said, I should have saved my comment for the other thread. Carry on.
The above is very reasonable and I understand completely. There was really nothing so wrong about your original comment; I was just participating in the back-and-forth as to how to conceptualize the pro-car and anti-car attitudes. I am pro-car, but (I certainly hope) not irrationally so. In fact, I have great respect for those who have chosen to use public and/or non-motorized transportation. That is not my choice, for reasons I have given elsewhere in this thread. I don't believe you have any need to say "sorry". Maybe I should say it for having been a bit polemical.
^^This is the way to go^^. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a setup like this in most American cities (hence, my griping). It helps that you're retired, so work is out of the equation. If work were part of the equation, you'd probably still have to have a car.
I know from reading other threads in other forums that Jtur88, whose arrangements for being without a car you are praising - and indeed they are praiseworthy and sensible, cannot drive because of vision problems. That puts his comments in a slightly different light; in other words he had no choice in the matter, so he made logical and reasonable adjustments to his living situation in order to have a pretty normal and dignified life without the automobile. Note that he made these necessary arrangements when he selected a place to move to. The only thing I am questioning is the tacit assumption that most people could do this just given the will. As you pretty much say, if one's job is not in that convenient small town, then things don't work all that easily. And not all small towns may be so non-auto friendly.
Munger spoke about what makes a bus system work well, citing Transantiago in Santiago, Chile, and Transmilenio in Bogota, Colombia.
“It was the best of times in Santiago until Transantiago came along,” Munger said.
Whichever... I'll pass on the 'waiting all day for the bus'
I just reread everything and am still not sure what this question refers to, but I have an idea: NYC bus pass unlimited rides - $104 per month (30 days actually)
NYC bus - $29 per week - (per person)
NYC bus - individual ride - $2.50 with 1 transfer (per person) (no dollar bills accepted, coins only)
My monthly car expenses vs savings
I pay approximately $100 per month in insurance - for 2 drivers
Gas use is a max of $120 per month (I ALWAYS use the credit card so I know) except when we take a major trip by car, and I use the car daily most weeks for city driving - 1 mile, stop and shop, repeat - and stop and go traffic. I hit the expressway about once a week, just to run the engine at speed for the 20 min it takes to go cross-island.
Major repairs have included a new exhaust system, broken belt, headlamps, engine gas leak, stupid plastic part on windshield fluid squirter (3 times), latch for back gate which holds spare tire, tires, new battery, and alternator. We are talking around $1000 (but I'll concede to around $2000) TOTAL. Then I get an oil change every 3 months - even though I know it is not necessary - but why not? So around $25/month for the entire 98 months we've owned the car.
Total car costs around $250 per month. Food budget is under $200/month WITH coupon use. That includes cat food, entertaining monthly, take out, and dining out.
Oh, and I live on an island. My friends and family live OFF this island. Bridge toll to the mainland is $9 plus highway tolls. Bridge toll in the other direction is $11 special rate. By car to Manhattan, 30 minutes off peak times, by public transit, 1.5 to 2 hours (includes time waiting for bus/boat/train) but time to return after an evening out can take up to 3 hours because of longer wait times.
Now calculate how much it is expected a family of 2 adults and 2 cats would spend on food - I have a friend with a small dog, 1 son, 2 adults - she spends $1000/month at Costco. Even calculating $500/month minus the $250 I spend now, that's an extra cost of NOT owning a car.
Car = under $250 - time savings - incalculable
Public transit = $210 + $250 extra food costs + time wasted
I cannot put a price on time. I'm in my 60s so time has become EXTREMELY valuable to me - priceless.
Thank you. You EXACTLY answered my Question...
I was just wondering exactly what was spent. (Adding gas to initial cost, repairs, and insurance I'm looking at $210- $310 depending on how muc hI drive... TOTAL cost.)
I know from reading other threads in other forums that Jtur88, whose arrangements for being without a car you are praising - and indeed they are praiseworthy and sensible, cannot drive because of vision problems. That puts his comments in a slightly different light; in other words he had no choice in the matter, so he made logical and reasonable adjustments to his living situation in order to have a pretty normal and dignified life without the automobile. Note that he made these necessary arrangements when he selected a place to move to. The only thing I am questioning is the tacit assumption that most people could do this just given the will. As you pretty much say, if one's job is not in that convenient small town, then things don't work all that easily. And not all small towns may be so non-auto friendly.
I think we're more in agreement than not. Most American cities / suburbs are set up only for motorized transportation and treats anyone who wants to walk/bike/take the bus as 2nd class citizens (or ignores them completely). Our cities & towns need major re-designs so that other transit modes aren't crowded out by auto-centric development.
I am more anti-car than you, but I do recognize they have some value. But I think we can both agree that our cities & suburbs don't need to be nearly as auto-centric as they are.
Shoot, we live in an urban area and need a car. My husband works about thirty miles away, and taking the bus would take three hours. That's not going to happen. The area we live in is very poor and doesn't have jobs. Busses are run by certain areas. We live in L.A. County by are not serviced by the Metro even though we pay taxes for it. Our area has a different bus service. My husband works in Orange County which has a different bus service. They don't all work very well together.
This may help narrow the focus of this thread......
"Keep it Simple: Live Locally
When you take the time to look around you and stop spending so much time behind the wheel, you'll find that your neighborhood is a rich area.
The real gift of being car-free is discovering that much of what you need is available within a mile or two of your home"
I don't believe that rural living will be practical as a bicycle only way of life until the number of vehicles on our two lane roads declines due to super high fuel prices.
Hahaha. Not here. We do have one grocery store within a mile, but carrying groceries back would not be fun. Add to that the high number of gang incidents, and I think not. Nothing else is within a mile. In poor areas such as here, businesses do not open shop.
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This applies to most things in life, not just the topic at hand.