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Old 05-01-2012, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Lemon Grove, CA, 91945
4,536 posts, read 4,555,982 times
Reputation: 1618
Interesting blog post and I dont think I took it for more than it was worth. It was digestible and made sense.

He did make the exception to the definition of 'slave' and in hindsight may not have been the best word to describe what he was trying to portray.

Earning a wage, whether its through your own business or as an employee of a business STILL requires a mind set that you are being paid for your services and or skills. This is a given. if you dont, then you are looking at your own value and what you bring, completely the wrong way unless you are asking for a donation to a cause.
The fundamental difference is the level of responsibility and how much you think YOU are worth. A company can demand certain wages based on a particular skill set but an entrepenuer, if they are good, can determine their own worth by being a good entrepenuer. I am not saying one is better than the other.

When it comes to slaving the wage. Do you work the tasks at hand or do they work you? Someone that sees a wage as the end result in financial terms of their services, should, in a perfect world, learn how to maximize and utilize that wage efficiently. It is after all money, not an emotion.
Otherwise you have become a terrible friend to yourself, to not treat your own personal financial well being with any sense of direction over the long term.

If one plans on earning a wage, regardless for someone else or self, the attitude about how that money is utilized determines slavery or not. Leasing life through poorly managed personal finances could potentially lead to a lot of ups and downs.
Life is short. Some peopele are able to live month to month without any forethought to the 'end game' and others are far more disciplined. Again one isnt better than the other. When all is said and done, its about the motivation of that individual and their particular circumstances in life isnt it?
Some people may be totally ok retiring at 50, traveling the world and going back to their 1k sq foot home living modestly. Others might want to work until they are 70 but retire with tons of money in the bank to only find out they never make it to 70.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:47 PM
Status: "Grains....Grains" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,313 posts, read 10,238,806 times
Reputation: 4038
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The value of being frugal is to reduce the amount of your life you need to spend working.
To do what instead? Most things people spend time on can be monetized, so wouldn't aligning your interests with your career be more fruitful? Who is better off? 1.) A guy that works 60/hours a week doing what he loves, 2.) A guy working 30/hours a week doing a job he doesn't care about so he has more free time to do something he likes.

I don't know, 1.) seems like a bunch better option.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,744 posts, read 37,402,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
To do what instead? Most things people spend time on can be monetized, so wouldn't aligning your interests with your career be more fruitful? Who is better off? 1.) A guy that works 60/hours a week doing what he loves, 2.) A guy working 30/hours a week doing a job he doesn't care about so he has more free time to do something he likes.

I don't know, 1.) seems like a bunch better option.
It's not that simple. A job you love doesn't necessarily mean a commute you love or a boss you love of office politics you love. Having a job entails an awful lot more than doing a job. It's fine for a person who has the luxury of being able to choose a job he loves, but it's hard to sound convincing to a roofer or a coal miner. If your idea were a genuine option, almost everybody would be doing a job they love.

How does one align an interest with a career, when most people will start out life in a career that won't even exist by the time their exciting work morphs into a daily grind. Careers of 2052 aren't even in the catalog yet, so how do you plan to be doing that?.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:41 PM
 
17,259 posts, read 5,233,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Exactly right--especially the part about moving the index of both income and outlay up or down. Most tend to automatically think of increasing income to meet spending, rather than decreasing spending to meet income, or even decreasing both of them, which is fine as long as the books are balanced. I can make 10 K per year... as long as I don't spend any more than that.

The flip side of that is that if your initial position is $10K income, reducing spending is very hard and therefore your best bet is to concentrate on increasing income.

Sometimes the personal finance refrain of Spend Less Than You Earn can be quite annoying. These experts should just TRY to spend less than $10K and see how it works for them.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:23 PM
Status: "Grains....Grains" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,313 posts, read 10,238,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If your idea were a genuine option, almost everybody would be doing a job they love.
It is, of course, a genuine option...but its something you have to work towards and that is why most people aren't doing it. If someone isn't happy with their job, their work environment, etc then they should work towards changing those things instead of finding ways to work as little as possible in a job/environment you're not happy with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
How does one align an interest with a career, when most people will start out life in a career that won't even exist by the time their exciting work morphs into a daily grind.
As the world changes so do people's interests, I'm not sure what is problematic here.

Anyhow, nothing is always 100% pleasant, but I enjoy what I do for a living and I'm not sure why you think I should strive to work less. Again, for what? What am I going to do with the extra time?
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,744 posts, read 37,402,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
It is, of course, a genuine option...but its something you have to work towards and that is why most people aren't doing it. If someone isn't happy with their job, their work environment, etc then they should work towards changing those things instead of finding ways to work as little as possible in a job/environment you're not happy with.


As the world changes so do people's interests, I'm not sure what is problematic here.

Anyhow, nothing is always 100% pleasant, but I enjoy what I do for a living and I'm not sure why you think I should strive to work less. Again, for what? What am I going to do with the extra time?
In other words, "do more work" is the only strategy on your table. Your only responses to the challenge is to say "you have to work" and "then they should work". Not everyone has such a limited imagination and closed mind.

I never said YOU should strive to work less. I just suggested it as an option for people who have a life and can think of something to do when not working.

Your last question has no answer that would be comprehensible to a workaholic.

Last edited by jtur88; 05-01-2012 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:49 PM
Status: "Grains....Grains" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,313 posts, read 10,238,806 times
Reputation: 4038
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
In other words, "do more work" is the only strategy on your table. Your only responses to the challenge is to say "you have to work" and "then they should work". Not everyone has such a limited imagination and closed mind.
Umm...no, you are just equivocating. When I said its something you have to "work towards", I wasn't talking about work as it relates to your career. Rather, its something you have to think about and make steps to achieve it. Its not going to magically happen. So, to say it again, if someone finds himself in a career that he doesn't like or in a work environment they don't enjoy, then one should solve the underlying problem rather than trying to limit their exposure to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I never said YOU should strive to work less. I just suggested it as an option for people who have a life and can think of something to do when not working.
You said that:

"The value of being frugal is to reduce the amount of your life you need to spend working."

So then, what happens if you enjoy your "work" and don't want to reduce the amount of your life you spend on it? Does frugality have no value then?

As for, workaholics, what does that mean exactly? Is anybody that spends more than 40/hours a week on revenue generating activities a workaholic?
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
38,744 posts, read 37,402,611 times
Reputation: 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Umm...no, you are just equivocating. When I said its something you have to "work towards", I wasn't talking about work as it relates to your career. Rather, its something you have to think about and make steps to achieve it. Its not going to magically happen. So, to say it again, if someone finds himself in a career that he doesn't like or in a work environment they don't enjoy, then one should solve the underlying problem rather than trying to limit their exposure to it.



You said that:

"The value of being frugal is to reduce the amount of your life you need to spend working."

So then, what happens if you enjoy your "work" and don't want to reduce the amount of your life you spend on it? Does frugality have no value then?

As for, workaholics, what does that mean exactly? Is anybody that spends more than 40/hours a week on revenue generating activities a workaholic?
Work on an assembly line or with a shovel in your hands or picking cotton is no different from school work or training for a career. It's what you have to do, even when you don't want to do it, in order to gain the resources to live a fulfilling life.

Everyone is free to set the standard for "fulfilling", and if one sets it high, one has to work more to achieve it.

You are the one who keeps saying what one "should do" or "has to do". I have made no such claim. I've merely said that people are free to set their fulfillment standards at a level that is commensurate with the amount of work they are willing to do, and create a tolerable equilibrium. You disagree, and wish to impose your constant-work fulfillment level on all people.

No, a workaholic is not measured by hours of work. A workaholic is a person who, by his own admission, wouldn't know what to do with his time if he were not working.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
7,778 posts, read 4,870,213 times
Reputation: 5643
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
The only way NOT to be a wage slave is ... not making wages. Go out and be your own boss and you won't need the wage.

However, it is easier said then done. Being your own boss takes a special set of skills and dedication. Most of people aren't made that way.
Ironically, I'm more of a "wage slave" now than I was when I was earning wages. I haven't really taken a vacation in the two years since I stopped being a wage slave. It's not paid anymore. And the one time I tried to actually take a real vacation I ended up cutting it short and working half the time I was there. On the other hand, I've gotten really good at three and sometimes four day weekends. I can usually half-day if not completely take Mondays and Fridays off. Just don't plan anything. If you do, invariably something comes up. I'm king of backing out of things.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:32 AM
Status: "Grains....Grains" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,313 posts, read 10,238,806 times
Reputation: 4038
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Work on an assembly line or with a shovel in your hands or picking cotton is no different from school work or training for a career.
No different? Education is no different than working? Umm....right, that is the problem here. You consider any activity that can be monetized or is at all related to something that can be monetized to be "work"....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You disagree, and wish to impose your constant-work fulfillment level on all people.
Umm...no, I'm not trying to impose anything, instead I'm pointing out that some people actually enjoy what they do for a living and have no desire to reduce their exposure to their work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
A workaholic is a person who, by his own admission, wouldn't know what to do with his time if he were not working.
You're still not getting it, again, for some their work is precisely what they want to do with their time. So then, in this case, what would the person do if they weren't working? Do some activity they aren't interested in?

Anyhow, you are treating "work" as something that is only done as a means to an end, something that is inherently negative. While that may be true for some people, its by no means true for everyone.

If someone finds themselves in a situation where their career is a means to an end, something unpleasant, etc....they should try to change their situation. Your suggestion, namely to be frugal so you can limit the pain of your career, doesn't make much sense to me.
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