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Unread 05-04-2012, 10:02 AM
 
4,591 posts, read 1,878,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Many move to expensive neighborhoods with high taxes for the schools. Often you can live in a less fashionable locale and send kids to private schools. Bonus they live where people learn to live without gobs of money.
Great idea!
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Unread 05-04-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Austin
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When we went through this when I was in grade school, my parents simply put us in the Catholic schools. They had a whole different set of issues, but they WERE safe.
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Unread 05-04-2012, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Mile High City
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It's not about being frugal--its about piece of mind.

I understand this whole frugal bonaza crap but give me a break sometimes!! You can't take the money with you when you die and why sit there at night and ponder every night whether you should save x amount of money and be unhappy or spend x amount of money and be happy???

This really isn't that hard of a question at the end of the day
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Unread 05-04-2012, 11:21 AM
 
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Sometimes frugal = peace of mind. Security is an essential component to happiness. If you get into a area that gives you peace of mind and you start living pay check to pay check with nothing to fall back on you will soon loose what you moved for. A child with parents in a financial bind will have even more issues with it in a upper middle class area where others are buying more things at will. It won't end with the nice neighborhood, then comes the gear those kids have as well. The taxes go up on those areas, and soon enough you are feeling pinched.
It's easier to monitor your child's friendships, getting them out to some safe play groups than it is to attain security in a neighborhood above your comfortable budget. You can't buy peace of mind, but you can purchase financial insecurity. People do this all the time.
There are easy fixes for your child's surroundings. Regardless of area. Not so much after you are in over your head on a mortgage, taxes and the rest of what comes with "up keep" in those neighborhoods. I did it, and regret it, it's taken me years to get out of it. My kids weren't any happier because of my debt.
Do you think your child will be free from wanting more high priced clothing, items other kids have? Do you think the child will feel bad if they don't have it all like their friends? When does it stop?
My answer would be in the first place. Before it all begins.
Be realistic, you can find fun things for your child, play mates that are decent, and events for them to enjoy regardless of the price of your mortgage. You said their school was good. Don't run away from the problem, just fix it. You'll feel better about it. You have no guarantee that the move will work. It might not. IMO, I'd try other fixes first. That is a lot of spend on such a small problem.
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Unread 05-04-2012, 11:21 AM
 
1,102 posts, read 623,024 times
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I'm by no means of the 'frugal' mindset, so I may have a very different stance here but to me, the only p
purpose of money is to provide a good quality of life. And of that, the MOST important thing imo is providing a safe, nurturing environment for your kids to grow up in. An area with less educated, lower-class residents is not worth it in any amount of savings. I'd sacrifice a lot to have my kids grow up around similarly minded families - those focused on education, kids busy with various activities, as that usually means way less free time to be getting in trouble. Kids from lower-class families who spend their time aimlessly wandering the streets are the ones more likely to be getting into all kinds of crap as teenagers. The peer environment is extremely important and kids' safety is not something to be sacrificed under any circumstances. Then again I don't have any problem with the characteristics you listed here for higher-class neighbourhoods - 'snobby', 'pretentious', 'consumerist' - whatever, give me that anytime over uneducated thugs. Yes, wealthy neighbourhoods can have their problems too, but no one can deny that as a general rule, these experience way less crime, violence, etc. than lower-income ones. JMO - what's the point of money unless it's used to better your and your kids' lives??
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Unread 05-04-2012, 11:32 AM
 
4,591 posts, read 1,878,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
I'm by no means of the 'frugal' mindset, so I may have a very different stance here but to me, the only p
purpose of money is to provide a good quality of life. And of that, the MOST important thing imo is providing a safe, nurturing environment for your kids to grow up in. An area with less educated, lower-class residents is not worth it in any amount of savings. I'd sacrifice a lot to have my kids grow up around similarly minded families - those focused on education, kids busy with various activities, as that usually means way less free time to be getting in trouble. Kids from lower-class families who spend their time aimlessly wandering the streets are the ones more likely to be getting into all kinds of crap as teenagers. The peer environment is extremely important and kids' safety is not something to be sacrificed under any circumstances. Then again I don't have any problem with the characteristics you listed here for higher-class neighborhoods - 'snobby', 'pretentious', 'consumerist' - whatever, give me that anytime over uneducated thugs. Yes, wealthy neighborhoods can have their problems too, but no one can deny that as a general rule, these experience way less crime, violence, etc. than lower-income ones. JMO - what's the point of money unless it's used to better your and your kids' lives??
How can you afford to do this if you aren't keeping your mortgage within a 1/3 of your income? You also need to factor in your accessories. Do you think the other families are going to want your child as their kids friends if your cars are old, your kids clothing isn't up to par and you don't have all that goes along with the area? No, most will treat you the way you did the others that didn't have what you did. It's human nature. I'd stay out of neighborhood politics. Set up school friends, play groups that don't involve any neighborhood, either way.
This is how it starts, people slowly start trying to keep up with the Joneses to get away from the Bunkers, they think it's a better life for their family, they don't usually do it for greed like people think.
If you can't afford it, your kid will be the looser in this scenario. Kids aren't that nice to kids that don't have the cash flow they do. Make sure you make enough for all that goes with it. Clothing, phones, computers, cars, etc.
Being made fun of for wearing clothes from Target isn't that rewarding. Being the only one without an iphone at 8 isn't either.

Last edited by PoppySead; 05-04-2012 at 12:52 PM..
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Unread 05-04-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Lemon Grove, CA, 91945
4,231 posts, read 3,564,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
I'm by no means of the 'frugal' mindset, so I may have a very different stance here but to me, the only p
purpose of money is to provide a good quality of life. And of that, the MOST important thing imo is providing a safe, nurturing environment for your kids to grow up in. An area with less educated, lower-class residents is not worth it in any amount of savings. I'd sacrifice a lot to have my kids grow up around similarly minded families - those focused on education, kids busy with various activities, as that usually means way less free time to be getting in trouble. Kids from lower-class families who spend their time aimlessly wandering the streets are the ones more likely to be getting into all kinds of crap as teenagers. The peer environment is extremely important and kids' safety is not something to be sacrificed under any circumstances. Then again I don't have any problem with the characteristics you listed here for higher-class neighbourhoods - 'snobby', 'pretentious', 'consumerist' - whatever, give me that anytime over uneducated thugs. Yes, wealthy neighbourhoods can have their problems too, but no one can deny that as a general rule, these experience way less crime, violence, etc. than lower-income ones. JMO - what's the point of money unless it's used to better your and your kids' lives??
Social class and welfare class are not necessarily one in the same which you appear to be generalizing. Tolerance is a long lost virtue it would appear.

I just think its worth noting that while there are clearly some folks that are more outwardly visible that you might not want to associate yourself with, doenst mean everyone in a particular area is that way or that your kids will turn out that way.

Living in a homogenous environment 'thinking' that there arent problems is probably not a very accurate assessment of someones ability to pay for a certain lifestyle.

But parenting is such a subjective matter. We all have differnet backgrounds that affect and directly impact what we 'think' is going to be the right place for kids to be raised. Nonetheless its quite the exercise attempting to apply a one size fits all approach.

Last edited by shmoov_groovzsd; 05-04-2012 at 12:20 PM..
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Unread 05-04-2012, 01:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I feel two ways about this...one...you find vulgar kids in high end neighborhoods too. But...I had kids...and lived in the most expensive school district I could. I did not buy a house, I rented to live in an exclusive area....and no regrets. My friend at work bought a house where she could afford...the high school was basically next to a ghetto. Her kids were harassed. Huge racial tension....knifing was common at her kids school...like on a daily basis.

Go higher end....if you can.
This is not our case because, like I said, our house already IS in a very good school district area. There is no fear of harassing, knifing and such extreme situations...
I simply feel that this particular neighborhood is one of the more lower-end in the larger area (even though it too belongs to the hot school district and is, by no means, cheap).
It is just less expensive compared to others around...and the population in it falls somewhere between lower-middle class to middle class.
Not dangerous in the way you mentioned...but not terribly sophisticated either. It is very racially homogeneous (all white) so no racial tensions involved.
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Unread 05-04-2012, 01:57 PM
 
3,375 posts, read 2,509,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd View Post
syracusa,

I choose #1.
Here is why: I am a firm believer that kids, if you raise them and they respect you and your decisions, those values will ultimately win at some point. It may not happen when you want it to happen, but its the times when they need to make real decisions that it will shine through.

I also believe that growing up seeing that other kids or parents are NOT like you helps identify who you really are or what you dont want to be. Kids are sensitive and can pick up that kind of thing. So here is the problem. I cant think of any parent that would advocate the above, treat their kid like a sociological experiment and then brag about it.

I also cant possibly believe that EVERYONE in this neighborhood you are talking about is like this. I cant help but think there are other decent parents or kids in this neighborhood. I think with that being said, the hope is that the law of averages will play out and inherently your kids will mutually understand some of those shared values.

So here is the question. Will you feel a deep regret moving because its against your nature, but 'think' its good for your kids? Or do you think your virtues of being a parent and staying put are your wheelhouse that your kids can depend on?

Do you think your kids will hug you later in life as adults and say "thanks for raising me here instead of there because now I am such a better person for it?" I can almost guarantee they will love you and appreciate you for ANYTHING you have done because guess what? They wont know anything else except for the life that you raised them in and appreciate it regardless.

Thank you for a very well-argued and sensible post. Yes, you are right in that not everyone in the neighborhood is like that particular boy's family (obviously)...but let's just say that family seems to fit in the neighborhood, overall, better than we do.
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Unread 05-04-2012, 02:03 PM
 
3,375 posts, read 2,509,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Many move to expensive neighborhoods with high taxes for the schools. Often you can live in a less fashionable locale and send kids to private schools. Bonus they live where people learn to live without gobs of money.
It would be more expensive for us to live in such a place. Even if you go all the way out there, the cost of private school for two kids will still be higher than the extra money you must pay for the house in a good school district.
Our area also happens to be...as you said, more "fashionable", which in real-world terms means closer to city/amenities ...allowing you to not drive for all eternity just to reach a miserable grocery store.

This is as far away from the city I am willing to go.
So yes, we pay for school district as well as being in a suburban area that is not TERRIBLY far from the metro area.
It is still far enough for me - as a suburb is a suburb is a suburb.
As in "dry".

If I go even further away, "dry" becomes "unbearable".
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