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Old 04-29-2012, 09:34 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,414,803 times
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I will try to keep this as short as it's doable and hopefully, not offensive - but I can't guarantee the latter part. I have offered some of the personal parameters in another thread before, but here is another dilemma we have.

We are looking at buying a house sometimes 1-max 2 years from now. We are currently saving for at least a 20% down-payment. We are the frugal/"dream-of-financial-independence" types and doing the best we can towards this goal, considering children.

We are currently renting a house that meets our needs just fine and that we have considered buying when time comes. (No, we don't have a basement and a whole lot of space for toy storage as revealed in another thread, but we don't think we should have a bigger house just so that we have more toy storage anyway).

The house is in a neighborhood in a very desirable school district.
Schools is why we picked the larger area in the first place. However, we picked one of the most affordable subdivisions/neighborhoods in the larger area so we can catch the quality of the school without breaking the bank.

This is where the "touchy" part starts. To put it bluntly, as I explained in a different thread, we are not completely at peace with the social environment in which we would raise our children, should we buy the house we currently rent and which we would EASILY afford (could finish paying off in 7-8 years).

Last evening added to the conflict we are experiencing when my 6 yo came from outside where he plays with neighborhood children and he said that "X child told him a,b,c". (One of the a,b,c-s being "su*k my weanner" in addition to the "F" word etc).

Shortly after we moved in this neighborhood and started to get to know more neighbors, I DID get the gut feeling that we don't necessarily fit in here. I will leave it at that without making further comments about various "categories" of individuals.
Call us snobs if you need to let it off your chest, but we are simply afraid that this would NOT be a good, healthy environment for our kids to grow up in, in the long run.

We have also noticed that the most recent additions to the neighborhood seem to indicate a subtle and gradual lowering of the quality of the neighborhood. Whether that has to do with more types of people affording houses that used to be out of reach for many due to the high prices and high interest rates...which now they're gone, I don't know.

What I DO know is that I would rather not have my kids exposed to nasty content at such early ages as well as very few, if any, role models valuing learning and bettering yourself, generally speaking. The families I see in the neighborhood don't exactly strike me as the "valuing learning" and "bettering yourself" types.

At the same time, I cannot spend a life time isolating the children from the neighborhood environment and forbidding them to make friends with kids just a few feet away from their own lawn.

I have been told that there is no guarantee that in "fancier" neighborhoods you will not encounter problems, and that "fancier" will also mean more consumption. I am fully aware of that and it certainly bothers me. Hence the frugal/neighborhood type dilemma.

Political correctness and egalitarianism aside, I HAVE noticed that kids in the "fancier" kind of neighborhoods are simply much less likely to spread the kind of nasty content I heard from my child the other day.
Most of out friends live in significantly more expensive neighborhoods, we often visit and have noticed a difference. Let's say the overall social environment is indeed more ...let's call it "clean".

Chances for encountering snobbery, pretentiousness, consumerism and other issues associated with the upper-middles? Yes - those go up.

But chances to see my kids exposed to that kind of nasty content...which can actually even turn dangerous in a few years (God knows what they will end up doing in their neighbors' basements a few years from now)...those go down in "fancier" areas.

So what would you do?

1. Pick the frugal house and stay in the current social environment?
2. NOT buy current house and try instead to get the least expensive house in a higher-end neighborhood.

Thank you so much for giving an opinion on what YOU would choose to do in our situation.

Last edited by syracusa; 04-29-2012 at 09:45 AM..
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Middle America
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Your kids are going to hear inappropriate crap from other kids no matter where you live. It's not an any one neighborhood thing, it's a kid thing.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:39 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,414,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Your kids are going to hear inappropriate crap from other kids no matter where you live. It's not an any one neighborhood thing, it's a kid thing.
I understand; I am just not convinced that the overall amount of exposure to junk content as well as BEHAVIOR is the same across neighborhoods.
For now we simply forbade him to play with this child anymore. Cold turkey.

Thank you for voting though.
For now I have one vote that goes with #1. :-)
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:45 AM
 
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I can remember my mother saying "If all your friends jumped off a bridge, should you?" You have to follow your heart on this, and your heart isn't where you are now.

My vote is for #2. Buy in the higher end area.

I have two reasons. I think you'll be happier there.

And most importantly, although there is no guarantee of future value, in this last real estate melt down the higher end places have fared better.

I live in a bad neighborhood. In the real estate boom we had, our neighborhood's value went up like a skyrocket -- bright and beautiful. My darling wee little house with a piddly little mortgage had a value nearing a half million dollars. $500,000.00.

But when the skyrocket burst... our value plummeted. I bought my house in 1987 for 72K and it's sitting on cusp of 100K now. And still hovering on the downward trend....

However -- homes in the better areas gained in value during the bubble and yes -- they've lost some. But when your home amount more than doubles and you lose 20% -- doesn't hurt as much as losing 80%. And those homes will recover quicker, because they are desireable places to live.

The one thing I learned -- never take a bet on an up and coming neighborhood....
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: France
158 posts, read 381,543 times
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I don't have kids, yet, but I know that when I do, we will move from the place we live now for the same reasons you expressed. We look at the other kids, we hear the way they talk, sometimes the way they dress and we don't like it. The cost of living is significantly lower than in other areas, but having a safer environment is more important to us.

Bottom line, our kids will be exposed to bad behaviour no matter what, after all they won't live in a bubble, but I want to know that I have done all that was in my power to take care of them in the best possible way.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:45 PM
 
Location: MO->MI->CA->TX->MA
7,022 posts, read 14,424,224 times
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The issues you'll encounter go beyond the scope of simply "Frugal Living".. it's a Social, Relationship, Parenting issue when it comes to getting your kids the best possible social life. Unfortunately, I don't have kids so I don't know much about that area but I'll share some tips about frugality:

If the most desirable school district in your region is completely unaffordable for you to purchase a house in, consider renting there. Read this article. There are tradeoffs though but in my opinion, the biggest tradeoff is raising kids in a small cramped apartment, not the missed opportunity for home appreciation (in the long run, a well diversified mutual fund will beat real estate but that's an issue for another forum.)

Less fancier neighborhoods doesn't equate to less consumption.. drive through a less desirable neighborhood and count the # of BMW's, Mercedes, Infinities, Lexuses, etc. parked there.

My parents immigrated to the US 30 years ago and I grew up as the only Asian child in the class (since they desired me to get the best education possible.) I've dealt with a far more hostile social environment than what you've described and still turned out fine so don't fret over that too much.

If your goal is to get your kids the best possible education AND to instill the discipline of frugality in them from an early age, then find the cheapest living arrangements in the best school district and live modestly.. not only will you be spending less but you're instilling a positive influence for them.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:06 PM
 
2,002 posts, read 4,571,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
The issues you'll encounter go beyond the scope of simply "Frugal Living".. it's a Social, Relationship, Parenting issue .
I agree, and it seems that OP already has his/her answer: option #2 is considered better. Since this issue seems so important, if you can afford the more expensive neighbourhood, go for it.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
41,778 posts, read 74,786,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Your kids are going to hear inappropriate crap from other kids no matter where you live.
Agreed. Trashy people live in all sorts of neighborhoods; a higher income is no guarantee of good taste or good parenting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
For now we simply forbade him to play with this child anymore. Cold turkey.
Look, I'm not a parent, we'll get that out of the way right now. But a) you've done the right thing in forbidding your kid to play with the other child -- for now, anyway (as you said, it's difficult to police who your kids play with all the time); and b) there's a lot you can teach your child right now from that incident about nasty words, telling tales, etc. No matter where you live, your children are going to come in contact with kids who talk or behave in ways you don't want your children to copy. Building that foundation now will make it easier for your children as they grow up to deal with all sorts of people.

Ultimately, this is a more important issue than frugality. If you're not comfortable in the neighborhood you're in right now, by all means do not stay there.

Last edited by Ohiogirl81; 04-29-2012 at 03:03 PM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:27 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,574 posts, read 46,018,222 times
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If you aren't comfortable what more is there to say? A bunch of people you don't know can't change how you feel.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:12 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,414,803 times
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Originally Posted by DFWgal View Post
I agree, and it seems that OP already has his/her answer: option #2 is considered better. Since this issue seems so important, if you can afford the more expensive neighbourhood, go for it.
I don't really have my answer. Not yet. I vaccillate between 1 and 2.
It is appealing to think of all the extra money we could save and invest by going with #1; but then the thought of doing frugality off of kids' back...pretty much by sacrificing the kids and raising them in an environment which we do not think is in their long term best interest...that makes me
feel bad about choosing #1.

It's almost as if I refuse to work hard enough to place them in a "cleaner" neighborhood. I should mention once again that the school district itself is VERY GOOD. So I am not concerned with the school, this is fine - but the actual subdivision/neighborhood!
This is one of the less expensive ones in a larger very good school district.


So I don't know - I don't have my answer yet. This is why I'd love to see how many frugals would lean towards #1 and how many would lean towards #2.

Thank you again for ANY opinion.
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