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Yes, it was posted here. I've only known three people who have lived off grid and they all used propane.
I never did answer the question. I've never lived without a refrigerator. I've lived for a month here and there with a cube dorm sized fridge, once with an under the counter and a couple of times with a quite small upright. I have rarely lived (even in Europe) within walking distance of a central market or shopping hub.
I lived, off the grid, in North Idaho for almost five years and most of that without a fridge. Winters were easy...just put the ice chest on the porch and 'instant' freezer! lol During the summer I made a LOT of trips to the local store for ice, especially during canning season. I also had a small creek next to the house where I kept things in a milk crate in the cold water...milk, soda, beer, etc.. All my neighbors had propane fridges and the last six months I lived there I had a small one as well. It CAN be done but I had to be really careful about it.
I lived, off the grid, in North Idaho for almost five years and most of that without a fridge. Winters were easy...just put the ice chest on the porch and 'instant' freezer! lol During the summer I made a LOT of trips to the local store for ice, especially during canning season. I also had a small creek next to the house where I kept things in a milk crate in the cold water...milk, soda, beer, etc.. All my neighbors had propane fridges and the last six months I lived there I had a small one as well. It CAN be done but I had to be really careful about it.
My enclosed side porch is the 'big ice box' in the winter.
My great aunt lived "off grid" most of her life. She lived for many years in Jamison City, PA - it's not a city. The great outdoors was her refrigerator in the winter. Her property backed up to the creek so, yes, she chilled food in the creek. She had to be careful because there were a lot of bears in the area. When she could no longer get block ice for the ice box she bought a propane refrigerator to use during the summer.
She had an outhouse, a coal stove in the kitchen, a wood burning stove in the front room, parlour, living room. I was only taken to her house a few times when I was rather young. I'd love to talk to her now.
My enclosed side porch is the 'big ice box' in the winter.
My great aunt lived "off grid" most of her life. She lived for many years in Jamison City, PA - it's not a city. The great outdoors was her refrigerator in the winter. Her property backed up to the creek so, yes, she chilled food in the creek. She had to be careful because there were a lot of bears in the area. When she could no longer get block ice for the ice box she bought a propane refrigerator to use during the summer.
She had an outhouse, a coal stove in the kitchen, a wood burning stove in the front room, parlour, living room. I was only taken to her house a few times when I was rather young. I'd love to talk to her now.
Living off grid is an interesting experience, for sure. We had lots of bears too. We lived just up the road from a Grizzly habitat but I never saw one. Did see plenty of Black bears, Moose, Elk, Deer, etc. though. We were lucky enough to have 'some' indoor plumbing but had an outhouse too. It rarely gets cold enough in AZ to use the porch as a 'fridge'. At least the part I live in.
Living off grid is an interesting experience, for sure. We had lots of bears too. We lived just up the road from a Grizzly habitat but I never saw one. Did see plenty of Black bears, Moose, Elk, Deer, etc. though. We were lucky enough to have 'some' indoor plumbing but had an outhouse too. It rarely gets cold enough in AZ to use the porch as a 'fridge'. At least the part I live in.
At least she had only the black bears to deal with. I remember my dad telling me that bears would go up onto her back porch and sniff around looking for food. Her old ice box with food inside was on that porch. I imagine that she had a root cellar but I don't really know.
OT but I always hated those outhouses. They were all really old and there was nothing nice or comfortable about them.
I went camping up in that area of PA about seven years ago. The campground owner told us to take precautions because there were a lot of bears in the area. Pretty funny.
At least she had only the black bears to deal with. I remember my dad telling me that bears would go up onto her back porch and sniff around looking for food. Her old ice box with food inside was on that porch. I imagine that she had a root cellar but I don't really know.
OT but I always hated those outhouses. They were all really old and there was nothing nice or comfortable about them.
I went camping up in that area of PA about seven years ago. The campground owner told us to take precautions because there were a lot of bears in the area. Pretty funny.
We never had any bears come onto our porch or deck but we had one Mama Bear that went through every morning and evening. I always wondered where they went! lol We had a big dog that was VERY good about keeping animals away, which is why I could have such a huge garden and animals didn't bother it.
Our outhouse was pretty nice. Brand new and quite a ways from the cabin.
We never had any bears come onto our porch or deck but we had one Mama Bear that went through every morning and evening. I always wondered where they went! lol We had a big dog that was VERY good about keeping animals away, which is why I could have such a huge garden and animals didn't bother it.
Our outhouse was pretty nice. Brand new and quite a ways from the cabin.
A bit off topic, but there is SO much that can be done with compost toilets now!
I studied abroad in Southern Mexico and one of the big supporters of the program (a group capped at 18 using experiential learning and internships combined with intensive language lessons and homestays studying sustainable development and grassroots social movments) was a man who had a compost toilet IN HIS HOUSE. He had struck it rich as a young man in Mexico City and the USA, and then "retired" to his home of Oaxaca and built an eco-friendly, off the grid home about 10 miles outside of the city. From there, he spent his time writing, consulting with local nonprofits, and speaking to a bunch of idealistic gringos like us.
What struck me is that his house looked like the upper middle class homes I had grown up around in the Atlanta suburbs - except using native materials for things like the rustic looking banister and mantlepiece, the tables, furniture, etc. His bathroom looked like a normal bathroom - the only reason you'd know it was a compost toilet was because you had to toss in some lime after you did your business, and there were different holes for number 1 and number 2. But it didn't smell, despite it being 90 degrees with about 20 people using it over the course of the day. The waste was then used for compost for their garden, accessed from the outside. The water all came from a cistern and well, with a pump powered by solar electricity (which also powered their small refrigerator, TV, and computers - "We're old and need our comforts" he told us :P).
Designing a house with a compost toilet inside might not make sense, but there's no reason that outhouses should be the monstrosities I remember from hiking up in the mountains! And it's very frugal to compost your own waste too.
It wouldn't work for me. I've got a large fridge and 2 large freezers. I shop perhaps every 6 weeks. I raise meat and will put 50 chickens or 25 rabbits into the freezer all at the same time.
The British with their small fridges shop almost daily at a little store they can walk to. They leave food sitting in the pantry that I would never leave out. For example, they will cook a Sunday roast and then it sits out for several days until it all gets eaten.
Most people in the UK shop weekly at the supermarket and don't use little stores very much - which is why so many of them are going out of business. (They did 40 or 50 years ago). They can't compete. And if you can't get to the supermarket they all, except one, do online grocery shopping and deliver it to your house. That's a very popular way of shopping. The small shops that do well are the butchers and believe it or not the bakers - artisan bread is much better than supermarket produces stuff.
My daughter has a small fridge it fits under her kitchen counter but she lives on her own in a one bed apartment and it is plenty big enough for her. Most families have bigger fridges - the type you have in the US - the side by side style is very popular, but so is a smaller fridge freezer. As are tall fridges, lots of people have a separate freezer -I have 2 fridge freezers, (freezer on the bottom fridge on the top), one is integrated into the kitchen and you would think it was 2 big kitchen cupboards and the other is in the garage. The stuff we use most days is kept in the kitchen and the rest in the garage. More or less anything you can buy refrigeration wise in the US you can buy here - it didn't used to be the case - when we got married 37 years ago a small under the counter fridge was the most common and a separate freezer if you could afford it.
We tend to buy smaller quantities of meat and food than you do in the US. And some of the huge packs of food you just don't see here. You wouldn't normally see a gallon of milk for instance - the regular size is 4 pints - though you can buy 6 pints, you can buy one pint or 2 pints too. Other packs of food in the US tend to be much bigger too - brocolli for instance and salad bags. Same with jars of sauce etc.
Also a lot people I know either batch cook and freeze or are like me and only cook enough for a meal - today we had a small pork loin roasted for dinner and all that was left was little bit of cabbage and it went in the bin. No left overs. I prefer that because although I'm full of good intentions with left overs they eventually end up in the bin - so we just cook a smaller amount.
I store potatoes, carrots, onions, garlic, aubergine and some other vegetables in the garage - it's winter and it's cool and dark. The fruit and vegetables my grandparent's could store over the winter without a fridge are fine by me to be stored in the garage.
Apples, oranges, bananas, tomatoes, lemons, limes etc get stored on the counter top in a bowl.
Most people don't leave out their left over Sunday roast (if they make one) out on the counter for days - most people buy a roast or a chicken that will do one or two meals - have you seen the price of meat here? It is very expensive - 1lb of steak mince is about $6 or $7, a decent chicken (2lb) about $10, chicken breast at least $7 lb, a 2lb beef roasting joint is over $30, sirloin steak $25 lb - meat isn't cheap and people don't buy or eat as much of it as you do in the US.
We tend to buy smaller quantities of meat and food than you do in the US. And some of the huge packs of food you just don't see here. You wouldn't normally see a gallon of milk for instance - the regular size is 4 pints - though you can buy 6 pints, you can buy one pint or 2 pints too. Other packs of food in the US tend to be much bigger too - brocolli for instance and salad bags. Same with jars of sauce etc.
Also a lot people I know either batch cook and freeze or are like me and only cook enough for a meal - today we had a small pork loin roasted for dinner and all that was left was little bit of cabbage and it went in the bin. No left overs. I prefer that because although I'm full of good intentions with left overs they eventually end up in the bin - so we just cook a smaller amount.
I store potatoes, carrots, onions, garlic, aubergine and some other vegetables in the garage - it's winter and it's cool and dark. The fruit and vegetables my grandparent's could store over the winter without a fridge are fine by me to be stored in the garage.
Apples, oranges, bananas, tomatoes, lemons, limes etc get stored on the counter top in a bowl.
Most people don't leave out their left over Sunday roast (if they make one) out on the counter for days - most people buy a roast or a chicken that will do one or two meals - have you seen the price of meat here? It is very expensive - 1lb of steak mince is about $6 or $7, a decent chicken (2lb) about $10, chicken breast at least $7 lb, a 2lb beef roasting joint is over $30, sirloin steak $25 lb - meat isn't cheap and people don't buy or eat as much of it as you do in the US.
Marie,
There really is NOT that much difference between waht you are doing and what we are doing.
We do buy milk by the gallon as the gallon of milk is $1.89 and the half gallon is $1.69.
We store MOST root vegetables in the basement as we have a six month supply as my father grows all of it.
Americans -
If you think that US food prices are high, try browsing the Tesco Direct website. That will give you sticker shock.
I was messing around and put a thermostat in my fridge. Low and behold it's been at 50F. So this is another thought.... you don't need to set your fridge to 37F and you would save money obviously on your electric bill by running it warmer to your own comfort level (I'm sure 50F would freak some people out).
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