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Old 12-06-2007, 11:12 AM
 
Location: in drifts of snow wherever you go
2,493 posts, read 3,061,744 times
Reputation: 692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Allow me to further put this in perspective for you. You can start out as a new-hire low level worker at a fast-food restaurant ... how technical and difficult is that? ... and move on up to management positions if you'll show the initiative and value to the business operation. I've got friends with parents who work at Mickey D's, Taco Bell, KFC, and similar places ... and take home $60-80,000 per year, and have done so for many years, after starting out from a high school part-time job. I could have done all I've accomplished on less income than that ... and you can, too.
This is true. My uncle had no college eduction and started off as a sales Clerk at JC Penny. He was earning $160,000 a year working as a district manager before he retired. Never left the company. My aunt and uncle saved and invested well (index funds) and retired with $1 million.

I also know of another friend who began work as a server at TGI Fridays. I think now he is also a district manager pulling in very good money.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:28 PM
 
201 posts, read 832,080 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMachine View Post
Lethal,

It can be very tough to make ends meet. The key is that no matter how much you make, to not spend more than you make. We live in a credit world where things are so easily had. I made a big mistake years ago by going back to school to get a degree I didn't need and incurring a lot of student loan debt. I was surrounded by people who encouraged me to take on the debt, like it was perfectly normal to do. I wish someone had advised me differently. Took me years to turn around and face that debt. At the time I never understood the sacrifices I'd have to make down the line to repay that loan. I was in fact stealing from my future.

greenie

There is always a limit in which you no longer can possibly spend less then you are making. Everyone needs basic things, clean water, enough heat not to freeze to death, food, and some sort of reliable shelter. Depending on where you live, reliable transportation may be a needed thing as well. These all cost a dollar figure, and if you make that figure, or less, there is no way you can live "below" that.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes + some
2,885 posts, read 1,422,165 times
Reputation: 346
They say the more you make, the more you spend. Would be good to pretend you didn't get that promotion and/or higher paying job. They also say "Pay yourself first". Every paycheck pay a bill to a second savings account for that purpose only.

You have to give yourself at least one nice splurge a year - then you can justify not spending as much the rest of the year.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:54 PM
 
201 posts, read 832,080 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Lethal Poison ... OK, I get the picture. You've figured out how to survive on the cheap, but that is only one half of the "simple living" picture.

Now you need to put some effort back into yourself. You say your job doesn't pay enough to leave you with adequate discretionary income? OK, so now it's time to seek out a better job ... which may require some real effort (and yet further sacrifice) on your part to improve your marketable skills, and get some further education. All is available to you if you want it badly enough and are willing to put forth your own effort. With a bit of determination and motivation, you can do it. There's all kinds of programs and jobs available to you right now, if you're willing to work.
I think its amazing how people automatically assume because Im broke I have no skills.......I have 3 degrees....next question? Do I need to put out 60k for an MBA to get a job paying over 40k a year? Yeah thats ok, Ill pass.


Quote:
If you're looking for sympathy and a hand-out ... it's not coming from this source. I know of too many good paying low-to-medium skilled jobs for people willing to work and learn and get ahead that are going begging because the employers cannot find the workstaff.
The only positions I know "begging for workers" are positions paying far below cost of living. For instance, there is a Dairy Queen not far from me that had a sign outside their building for about 4 months now "assistant managers 7.50 an hour". 7.50 an hour wouldnt pay the rent on an average 1 bedroom apartment split 3 ways here. Correspondingly, the sign continues to sit out there unchanged. On the other hand, any job paying over 30k a year, has 6000 people automatically apply for it, and the funny thing is, you couldnt get by here on that without living in the gutter and riding a bike to work every day.


Quote:
But you've got to want to be productive and valuable to the employer, not just looking for a job positon with a paycheck. If that's all you think you're worth, then that's all that you'll ever receive ....
The average person has zero value to an employer, especially when there are 400 people who will take your job in a second for half the wage. Nine out of ten companies will take the savings and sacrifice quality of work when it comes to wages. That is fact, that is why our manufacturing is chasing cheap, low skilled labor around the globe.


Quote:
Allow me to further put this in perspective for you. You can start out as a new-hire low level worker at a fast-food restaurant ... how technical and difficult is that?
I worked in fast food when I was in school......after being promoted to assistant manager in 6 months and right after I turned 18 (I would have been promoted earlier but the restaurant didnt feel comfortable with me supervising the distribution of alchoholic beverages as a minor), I decided that I was doing way too much work for $6.00 an hour, and I left. Funny thing about that? They promoted an incompetent to take my place, and paid them $5.45 an hour to do it. Good thing employers are always on the lookout for top talent.......no, they are usually on the look out for the cheapest body to fill a spot. Nothing more.


Quote:
... and move on up to management positions if you'll show the initiative and value to the business operation. I've got friends with parents who work at Mickey D's, Taco Bell, KFC, and similar places ... and take home $60-80,000 per year, and have done so for many years, after starting out from a high school part-time job. I could have done all I've accomplished on less income than that ... and you can, too.
Thats funny, I knew a manager of a McDonalds, and she made 28k a year, and she couldnt afford her rent. In my sophmore year of college, I was offered an assistant manager position at Arbys for 17k with the possibility of receiving "32k" when I was promoted to manager. All this for working 9-10 hours a day, 6 days a week with terrible benefits. My good friend managed a sandwich shop (the one I worked at further up the post), and was paid $9.50 an hour, and had to work 3 jobs, and STILL rent a room out in her two bedroom apartment in the ghetto. Wow, let me jump right on that.


Quote:

Even my one son who didn't finish high school managed to put on a smile and a good attitude (when he realized Daddy wasn't going to feel sorry for him and support him the rest of his life) and got a part-time job waiting tables at a good restaurant ... and was making $45-60K per year for awhile until he decided to finish up his education and get an IT degree. Now he works for MSoft, salaried at big bucks, and isn't as happy as when he was waiting tables ... but he's got the salary and benefits and job title and stress and BS that comes with the corporate job.
The average wages/tips of a server comes to less then 8 dollars an hour, and thats according to the BLS. So, either your son was working at Snazzy McOverpriced, or you are grossly misrepresenting his wages.


Quote:

So can you, if you're willing to work and improve your situation. Quit feeling sorry for yourself and get off your butt, you might just surprise yourself with the opportunities awaiting you.
Again, making assumptions.....you have no clue my life experiences or qualifications. This is a typical right wing holier then though reaction to poverty. If you are poor, you must be a lazy bastard with an eighth grade education, a literacy level of a preschooler, and an IQ of a handicapped chimpanzee.


Quote:

OH, and for what it's worth ... my prime source for clothing is Goodwill or DI stores, or surplus stores. I don't buy cars with less than 100,000 miles on the clock already, either, but I maintain them myself ... because I learned how to work on them. You can, too.

Must be nice to have the leisure time to put in hours of work on a car. Some of us dont have it. Must be nice to be able to afford the tools to work on said car, some of us cant. Must be nice to have a garage to store those tools, some of us dont have that. Must be nice to have an area to work on a car, some of us dont have that luxury.......
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Quincy, MA
385 posts, read 1,257,653 times
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Quote:
I made a big mistake years ago by going back to school to get a degree I didn't need and incurring a lot of student loan debt. I was surrounded by people who encouraged me to take on the debt, like it was perfectly normal to do. I wish someone had advised me differently. Took me years to turn around and face that debt. At the time I never understood the sacrifices I'd have to make down the line to repay that loan. I was in fact stealing from my future.
I got a bachelor's degree in creative writing and was constantly encouraged to get a master's as well. I'm glad I didn't. It wouldn't have done a thing for my earning potential and would have put me heavily in debt. I do have undergraduate student loans (I'm 24) but they're manageable.

Quote:
They say the more you make, the more you spend. Would be good to pretend you didn't get that promotion and/or higher paying job. They also say "Pay yourself first".
I've heard that too. If you tell yourself you'll save whatever's left over every month, you'll never save anything, because there's always something new to buy. It's better to automatically set aside part of your paycheck and force yourself to live on the remainder. It doesn't have to be much--even 5% per paycheck is better than nothing.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:43 PM
 
Location: in drifts of snow wherever you go
2,493 posts, read 3,061,744 times
Reputation: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethal_Poison View Post
Must be nice to have the leisure time to put in hours of work on a car. Some of us dont have it. Must be nice to be able to afford the tools to work on said car, some of us cant. Must be nice to have a garage to store those tools, some of us dont have that. Must be nice to have an area to work on a car, some of us dont have that luxury.......
Lethal,

You put a lot of energy -- and writing -- into defending yourself, yet I don't think anyone was attacking you. If you feel you are stuck in a rut with no way out, then so be it. We were just trying to offer suggestions.

All the best to you,

Greenie
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:24 PM
 
10,869 posts, read 41,150,426 times
Reputation: 14009
Lethal Poison ...

I'm almost laughing my butt off over your pathetic response(s).

You've got the "woe is me, I've got three degrees and can't get a job that pays what I'm worth blues" down to a science ... no, better than that ... you've elevated this to an art form.

I'll bet you can rationalize in a 1000 different eurudite ways why life is so unfair and unkind and cruel and dehumanizing and all the work available and pay scales are beneath you.

You're simply so far into denial of the value that you might bring to an employer that you've created your own reality of no income. Apparently, all those degrees you've studied for are either not in demand right now ... my, oh my ... how unusual is that? Or, you interview with them where they might be in demand in such a way that you ... personally ... defeat the value of that education that you might bring to the employer.

There's no "assumption" on my part as to your educational level or any other stereotype of self defeat you bring to the table. I certainly wouldn't hold all your education and experience against you.

The people I know that got ahead did it by exhibiting good work ethics, good performance, showing up to work on time to actually work and be productive, and had a little determination and motivation to get ahead as they matured and had families of their own. Some did it with a formal educational background, some did it with OJT, some did it by sheer grit and determination.

You can parse all my comments as you wish, but your attitude of self-defeat shines through more strongly than any other characteristic.

If you'd shown up on the doorstep of my shop to be a detailer/shop assistant (that's clean-up boy to you) with your attitude ... you wouldn't qualify for the job, nor be hired by me. I want employees who can show me a little grit and enthusiasm ... we call it "riding for the brand".

My assertion still remains: If you will get off your butt and apply yourself in a manner where you are of value to an employer, there are lots of jobs available today where you can earn a living and a valid chance to move on up the pay scales. You may have to relocate to get those jobs, but from what you've described about your current circumstances, you wouldn't be leaving much behind, would you?

OH, you'd ask where are those jobs? The ski resorts are hiring. The mines out West are hiring. The energy industry as a whole is hiring. Ranches are hiring. Supermarkets are hiring. The hospitality industry is hiring in many places. You can have your pick of many trades, professions, lines of work and make a good living right now ... but you do have to want to do it. No one else can do it for you ....
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes + some
2,885 posts, read 1,422,165 times
Reputation: 346
I can't believe how you guys responded to lethal. This is OT i know, but come on.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Southwest Missouri
1,921 posts, read 5,553,282 times
Reputation: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillietta View Post
I can't believe how you guys responded to lethal. This is OT i know, but come on.
I can't believe how lethal responds to life in general. What did you expect?
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:21 PM
 
Location: in drifts of snow wherever you go
2,493 posts, read 3,061,744 times
Reputation: 692
Any more examples of simple living? I would love to hear more stories. Anybody?
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