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Old 11-25-2015, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
8,880 posts, read 15,624,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper1372 View Post
There is no one rule to set of best practices that work in all circumstances or places. I'm not about to be switching bulb types between heating and cooling seasons, but my main point was just to say that the added effencies of the LED/CFL vs incandescent bulbs differs between climates and seasons. When I finally did switch from incandescents to CFL/LED bulbs, it makes more sense to do it in the spring in Minnesota than in the fall right before the heating season.
But on the other side of the coin, you will use the lights more in the winter months when the days are shorter.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,489 posts, read 1,272,175 times
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Quote:
1. They are not efficient heaters. Incandescent bulbs are essentially electric resistance heaters. And because of the inefficiencies of producing electricity and transmission losses, even dedicated electric resistance heaters are far less efficient than using natural gas, propane or an air-source heat pump. Incandescent Bulbs Still Suck: Why the Bulb as Heater Argument Falls Short : TreeHugger


I read the link you provided and don't dispute anything in there. However, as with all points of view, there are some things that need to be discussed. I don't doubt what you, or the linked article are saying, but you're not responding directly to what myself and the other fellow are saying. Once electricity is delivered to your home, it's virtually 100% efficient.

I understand line loss and inefficiencies of production etc... Those are all very valid parts of the equation, but I am only buying the electricity that actually enters my home. And of the amount that enters my home, it's virtually 100% efficient. Yes, there is some line loss that takes place even in my home wiring....but its VERY small.

Are we talking economical or efficient here ? They are two different subjects.

My Natural Gas furnace is 92% efficient......with the gas that actually enters my home. There are obviously inefficiencies in producing and distributing natural gas as well, no ? I don't know what it's called, perhaps simply friction, but I'm assuming there is "line loss" in a gas or petroleum line as well. There are probably a few leaks in the gas line between my home meter and the gas well, potentially thousands of miles away from my home.

Also, the article mentions that you'd never put a space heater up near your ceiling....darn right I wouldn't. However, my forced air registers are in the floor blowing upward. Heat rises, and quickly I might add, right ? Have you ever been on a step ladder, well, perhaps changing one of those light bulbs we're discussing ? Ever notice how it's about 20 degreed warmer up there than down near the floor where we humans live ? Yes, so have I. The heat rises so quickly once blown into the room, I doubt the it lingers down at floor level more than a few seconds before rising. The true key to keeping the bottom layers of your living space warmer isn't so much where your heaters/registers are, but how you go about keeping the air mixed......perhaps by having a ceiling fan on (blowing up in the Winter of course). That makes a room much more comfortable at 68 degrees.

During the warmer months when you need A/C.....I'll agree totally with the fact that incandescent bulbs are a true waste energy wise. Bring on the LED's, but let's actually understand the situation (the how's and why's) and not just do it because someone else is telling us it's the way to go.....lol.

Last edited by jasper1372; 11-25-2015 at 12:03 PM..
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:23 PM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,699 posts, read 8,159,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper1372 View Post
Once electricity is delivered to your home, it's virtually 100% efficient.
Nonsense. I don't mean that you cannot come up with a rationalization for the words you've used, but rather that that rationalization is nonsense - literally, without sense. Energy efficiency relates specifically to what is required to power services. In the case of what we are actually talking about in this thread, it relates specifically to what is required to provide the heat you need, etc. As such, the comment you made is (literally) nonsense, and your repetition of that same (literal) nonsense later in your post is also (literally) nonsense.

I just replaced our electric central air conditioning. Between the day before and the day after the replacement, our electric bill dropped by more than half, even though the weather outside was comparable. How the electricity gets converted into the specific service for which you are intending it matters.

I'm all of people having differences of perspective, but that's not what you're putting forward. You're putting forward an argument that trivializes the discussion into insignificance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper1372 View Post
I understand line loss and inefficiencies of production etc... Those are all very valid parts of the equation, but I am only buying the electricity that actually enters my home. And of the amount that enters my home, it's virtually 100% efficient. Yes, there is some line loss that takes place even in my home wiring....but its VERY small.
That's again nonsense. What the link is saying is that electricity, itself, is a comparatively inefficient means of producing heat.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:42 PM
 
11,889 posts, read 14,355,740 times
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Started in 1992. The most heavily used, hard to replace. Keep in mind this is when they were not so compact, heavy, and cost over $12. Accelerated the process around 2005, when the local utility shut down its light bulb service. Completely changed except for a few rarely used sockets and the smaller ones, changed to LED.
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Old 11-25-2015, 09:44 PM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,477 posts, read 1,706,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
<snip>

On this length of life issue, though, most of my incandescent bulbs were long lived. I bought a six year old house, so don't know how long those bulbs had been in place, but most of those ame bulbs were still working when I moved out 10years later. The only ones I replaced were some spots in the kitchen and I didn't have to replace those for years after I bought the house.

<snip>

It's all well and fine for long life to be pointed put as an advantage for the expensive bulbs, but I suspect that they don't really last any longer.
I heard a while back that there are 50 year old incandescent bulbs underground in NYC that have never been turned off (except during power failure) and that it's the on/off cycles that kill the bulbs. This is also true of CFL so if you have a pantry light that goes on and off often, you're better off using something other than CFL because they will die prematurely.
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:44 PM
509
 
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We switched from CFL's to LED's as quickly as possible in our off-grid solar vacation rental. Hate CFL's. Poor light quality....just awful.

My preference is for 4000K LED's for general lighting and 2700K in the bedrooms for lights before bedtime for health reasons. Unfortunately, in the past few years it has been harder and harder to find 4000K LED's. At least they have significantly dropped in price. My first LED lightbulb was $75/dollars and worth it to get rid of the $20 mercury CFL's.

In our grid house....we are so far north (Washington state) that summertime the lights are hardly ever on. In winter time we need to heat the house anyway so incandescent's and their heat output is no issue. The house is all electric and electricity is so cheap there is little to be gained by switching to CFL's or LED's in our grid house.
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Carmichael, CA
1,933 posts, read 2,726,978 times
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I've yet to change to the new bulbs. I tried a CFL and it felt like it was flickering and gave me a headache. The LED's were too expensive.


I continue to buy and use the old lightbulbs and try to conserve them--and energy--as much as possible.
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Old 11-26-2015, 04:27 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,699 posts, read 8,159,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger256 View Post
I heard a while back that there are 50 year old incandescent bulbs underground in NYC that have never been turned off (except during power failure) and that it's the on/off cycles that kill the bulbs. This is also true of CFL so if you have a pantry light that goes on and off often, you're better off using something other than CFL because they will die prematurely.
And my impression is that LEDs are not as affected by number of on/off cycles.
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Old 11-26-2015, 10:23 AM
 
898 posts, read 654,966 times
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I've converted to CFLs, hate the look, but incandescent are being phased out. Never knew about the toxicity with broken bulbs. So, I went through the place and removed all of the CFLs, got them wrapped individually in newspaper ready to be recycled properly. Jeez, this is like Victorian times, "Hey we got this newfangled invention here...ooops, you mean it's hazardous? Sorry about that!"

So now, I'm going to be sitting in the dark until next week when I can get LED bulbs. Good thing I've got two kerosene lanterns and lots of kerosene.

I know it sounds like I'm over reacting, but I'm trying to keep toxic things out of my house.
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Old 11-27-2015, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
8,880 posts, read 15,624,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IheartWA View Post
I know it sounds like I'm over reacting, but I'm trying to keep toxic things out of my house.
Other than the kerosene, of course.
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