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Old 01-10-2016, 11:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
What I had not realized - because one tends to take lighting for granted - is just how many lights I have in the house so replacement is an expensive business. And even if the payback period is fairly extended - say 900 days as suggested above - that is okay provide the LED lights last as long as the manufacturer claims which is 22 years.
I think I have upwards of 200 light bulbs in my home, because it is a fairly large old home. When LED light bulbs were $20 apiece, it was difficult to get the motivation to use them, even if there was a long payback period. I tended to put CFLs wherever the place was utilitarian, and you didn't care about the quality of the light. But I used one $20 LED at the foot of the basement stairs near the washer and dryer. The CFL took so long to light up that I was afraid someone would fall.

But while tungsten incandescent bulbs usually lasted about 1200 hours, a common rating for LED's is 25,000 hours. The manufacturers average three hours per day to get 25000/365/3=22.8 years. So if it is on 24/7 don't expect it to last more than 3 years. Also remember that LED bulbs won't "burn out" like a tungsten filament. The light will begin to decay.

Halogen bulbs are not nearly as efficient as LED bulbs, but they meet the bare minimum of the law and they cost a lot less. For example the law says that replacements.

A traditional tungsten 100W bulb produced 1490-2600 lumens of electricity. The new legal requirement is 72W to produce the same light output. Halogens meet the letter of the law. Just pulling some values from the Home Depot website we get:

LED $19.95
Watt Equivalence 100
Average Life (hours) 25,000
Light Output (lumens) 1600
Wattage (watts) 18

Halogen $2.42
Watt Equivalence 100
Average Life (hours) 1,250
Light Output (lumens) 1200
Wattage (watts) 72

The LED will last 20X as long, so
I will have to pay $48.40 for twenty bulbs plus $207.00 in electricity to operate halogen bulbs for 25,000 hours. (Assuming 11.5 cents per kWh)
LED will cost me $19.95 for the bulb and $51.75 in electricity costs for 25,000 hours.

Another way to look at it is the Halogen bulb will cost $10.35 to operate over it's lifetime at of 1250 hours, while the LED will only cost $2.59. At two halogen lifetimes, I will have spent 2*$10.35+2*$2.42 =$25.54 and for the LED $19.95 + 2*$2.59 =$25.13 so for the next 8 lifetimes, the LED will be costing me a lot less . If the bulb is on for an average of one hour per day, it will still take me 6.8 years until I burns out two halogen bulbs. A light bulb in a closet could easily take a lifetime to payback.

=================================
I just can't see replacing most of the older incandescent bulbs until they eventually burn out. In some cases, I have used Halogens, and in other cases I will probably try and use up the CFL bulbs.

Keep in mind that in Europe lightbulbs were just the beginning. The next target was vacuum cleaners, and then on to hair dryers. They have a list of up to 30 items that will be regulated. If you think some people got upset about lightbulbs, when their high power vacuum cleaners went off the market they were livid. Professional hair stylers are now being told they must spend ten minutes more with each client and are very angry.

So you can probably look forward to similar legislation in the Americas.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 01-10-2016 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 01-10-2016, 12:10 PM
 
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I don't disagree with anything you have stated above. However, the cost of LEDs is still all over the place. I found that I could buy a 65W equivalent LED PAR30 for about the same price as a 75W equivalent Halogen (approx $8 at Home Depot). On the other hand, short neck PAR30 are both hard to find and fairly expensive at around $20. As a result, I am being selective about what I replace. I would expect that, as LEDs become more ubiquitous, prices will begin to normalize across the range.
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Old 01-10-2016, 12:12 PM
 
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hope the LED lights work out!
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Old 01-10-2016, 12:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
I had over 30 floodlight bulbs throughout the house.
Can you print out the amount of electricity in kWh you are using from your smart meter? For the last 10 days, I can print out the Minimum, Maximum per hour and the total for the day.

Date........ Min Max Total
01/05/2016 3.17 5.64 96.50
01/04/2016 2.71 6.11 88.40
01/03/2016 2.19 6.34 77.60
01/02/2016 2.71 5.13 82.90
01/01/2016 1.79 9.22 84.90
12/31/2015 2.42 5.01 79.50
12/30/2015 2.13 9.16 93.80
12/29/2015 2.13 7.32 78.50
12/28/2015 1.90 4.72 68.70
12/27/2015 2.25 5.82 71.80

If I have 30 floodlights, and they are 75W apiece, and they are on for 60 hours total that is 4500 Watt hours or 4.5kWh. By 60 hours I mean they average 2 hours apiece where some are hardly on at all.

So my home is running 68 to 97 kWh per day. So it is much less than 10% floodlights.

Replacement bulbs are going to probably reduce it from 4.5 kWh to less than 1 kWh (which is good), but I still have to payback the price of the new bulbs.

But it isn't going to radically reduce the price of the electric bill.

I suspect your home is already going over 100 kWh per day on the cold days.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:49 AM
 
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Some of the posts above got me thinking about the savings of replacing incandescent and halogen with LED. So I ran the numbers for my own home using:

1. Actual data over the past 12 months from my utility
2. The number of lightbulbs replaced and the actual wattages of those (64 lightbulbs replaced)
3. The actual wattage of the LEDs
4. An estimate of the number of hours each light is used per day.
5. Stated life of each type of lightbulb by the manufacturer.
6. Cost of each type of lightbulb

There are two sets of numbers. The first is the estimated annual electricity saving and the second is the saving on replacement lights over a 20 year period given that my LEDs have a stated longevity of 22.8 years.

So:

1. Annual electricity saving is approximately $163.

2. Savings on replacement lightbulbs over 20 years is approximately $3,500

Altogether, I have replaced 64 lightbulbs for a total cost of $1,000. So electricity savings alone will cover that cost in 6 years.

Because different halogen and incandescent bulbs have different stated lives, I did not go into the complexity of building those numbers into my ROI. However, I think it fair to say that they would reduce the time required for my investment to pay for itself.
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:16 AM
 
9,086 posts, read 9,246,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Altogether, I have replaced 64 lightbulbs for a total cost of $1,000. So electricity savings alone will cover that cost in 6 years.
So $1000/64=$15.63 . You can imagine how excited I was to see LED light bulbs for as little as $4 at Home Depot (subsidized by local electric utility).

But the $1 per watt for 24/7/365 usage corresponds to 11.42 cents per kWh. That is the approximate value of most electricity in smaller cities in the USA. So a 60W bulb replaced with a 10W bulb will save you $50 in electricity, or $12 if the bulb is on 12 hours a day.

I suspect that the 10 most often used bulbs are saving you half your electricity compared to the other 54.
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
You can imagine how excited I was to see LED light bulbs for as little as $4 at Home Depot (subsidized by local electric utility).

I've found that pricing on the LED bulbs varies from store to store dramatically.



I moved into my home this past Dec and found it to have about 35 recessed cans with 65W flood halogen bulbs in it. Most of these were in the finished basement and family room, so those lights are on all the time.

Pricing out the various Cree 65W bulbs found them at about $9/bulb in most locations, however one day I stumbled into a different Home Depot and found the same bulb for $2.95/each. I bought all 35 right there.

Over the course of the next few weeks I returned to the same store to buy additional bulbs for other various fixtures in the house. Their standard 40 and 60 watt bulbs were also around $3-4 each. At this point, 95% of the lighting is now LED and the only ones remaining are seldom used lights.
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
So $1000/64=$15.63 . You can imagine how excited I was to see LED light bulbs for as little as $4 at Home Depot (subsidized by local electric utility).

But the $1 per watt for 24/7/365 usage corresponds to 11.42 cents per kWh. That is the approximate value of most electricity in smaller cities in the USA. So a 60W bulb replaced with a 10W bulb will save you $50 in electricity, or $12 if the bulb is on 12 hours a day.

I suspect that the 10 most often used bulbs are saving you half your electricity compared to the other 54.
I replaced bulbs in our kitchen, hall, bedroom, bathrooms, living room and some of the outside ones. These are all the areas where we have lights on the most. I think I said in a previous post that I had never realized just how many lights we have.

I absolutely agree with your comment that the 10 most used will probably save half the electricity.

Some of the bulbs are expensive - notably short neck 75 Watt equivalent PAR30 - and that pushed the average cost up. With that exception, I found LEDs to be much more affordable than I expected. We also have some lights - notably our stair lights which use 60W halogen G9 bulbs - where a LED equivalent does not exist as yet (or I cannot find one). So the solution there is to switch them off more often.

We have quite a large house and there are other rooms and areas (e.g. guest bedrooms, garage, laundry room) where I will not be changing to LED. As those bulbs burn out over time I will replace them with the bulbs that were changed out. We also have very high ceilings in our living room. The idea of not having to change those bulbs for another 22 years is a huge attraction in itself irrespective of the electricity saving.

Last edited by Jaggy001; 01-13-2016 at 07:16 AM..
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:32 AM
 
Location: New Market, MD
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Costco - they are on sale now 40 W 3 for $4.50, 65W 3 for $7 and so on. I have used them for last 4 years none of them is out yet.
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Old 01-13-2016, 12:01 PM
 
Location: South Park, San Diego
4,645 posts, read 7,077,293 times
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6000 kWh/month

That's crazy! Heating a house in the Northeast is not for the faint hearted. I used 6800 kWh total last year- and it's not that small of a house 7 rooms/1800 s.f., no insulation to speak of but none really needed and I've got 3 ornamental fountains/ponds going most hours day and night.

Still, it seems very excessive regardless, you don't seem like you are doing anything out of the ordinary with your usage.

I'm slowly changing out my bulbs to LEDs but I don't anticipate a huge difference in my bill or kWh usage- just went to solar with a PV system so I'm much more cognizant of my usage and reading the smart meter to figure it all out.

Still, you would need a Solar farm of panels to produce as much as your house seems to be able to consume so not a viable answer for you there.

Good luck in finding out the best path to get that down to a reasonable level.
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