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My wife and I seem to be on the right path financially, the only debt we've had over the past 11~12 years is a mortgage (er, personal loan to quickly remodel a house that was paid off in 3 months aside). Both cars predate that with the youngest being 19 years old with 292k miles on the clock. Helps that it's Also a diesel and still returns 48~49mpg average. But it's slowly falling apart, age is simply something against which there is no cure or preventative, sadly enough. It was fine so long as it was a $100 set of bushings there and a $50 parking brake cable there with the other normal maintenance (tires, timing belts, brakes, etc...) but this past weekend I noticed the clutch slipping... and it's been blowing chunks of foam out the vents for a year now. The headliner is starting to sag, it squeak and rattles like crazy and every time I have to work on it I end up breaking some plastic clip that's brittle from age/heat or a rusted fastener.
So it seems like time. We've been smart, banking money against this inevitable day so we can pay for the replacement outright (or near enough).
The problem is, I don't want to spend that money. We're still *well* under the normally advised threshold of 6-months worth of car payments in a year ($3k-ish for a $25k car sound fair?), and even if I do the clutch it's only ~$600 in parts and a day of my time. It's really been a very trouble-free car in the grand scheme of things.
But it's also my wife's commuter car (I work from home), doing ~70 miles a day for that commute and the fuel economy can't be ignored. Plus it seems to be more luxuriously equipped than most/all of the replacements we'd be willing to purchase (heated leather seats, not "leatherette", for one example... yes, in a Jetta and they don't do that anymore).
I'm just so torn. I fully expected to drive this car into the ground along with my Toyota truck (which is older, but fewer miles and in better shape). Oddly, I feel the same way about my cell phone (a flip phone relic from 2007) and most other things. Just a mental hangup? Not like the money that's earmarked has been in any sort of place where it's making more than 1% interest, it's not Doing anything for us other than waiting to be used. When's it Enough? Push things off till we're in a bind and *Must* make the change but with the potential of a few more years before that time, or cut off a few years and make the change when it's convenient.
Beyond buying a house and education, we've never spent more than $10k (in on lump) on anything. Too bad you can't find the same kind of car deals as 2 decades ago.
Fixing the clutch for $600 is only 1 or 2 months of a typical car payment so don't misjudge that. It's still a great bargain. You won't really be at a "breaking point" until you get into those really expensive repairs costing thousands that still don't necessarily ensure the car will be workable a couple years out.
Even then, you don't sound like you've considered a good used car that is 2-3 years old. Those have gotten a huge amount of appreciation out of the way and with some care (which you know how to do, given your current vehicles) could last a decade or two. Get a good used car for $10k-$15k and pay it off quickly (or not if you get a great interest rate of less than 2%).
Even then, you don't sound like you've considered a good used car that is 2-3 years old..
That's actually where I went first as that's what we did last time. But last time we found 3 years old and less than half sticker price, this time it's 3 years old and Maybe $5k off from new (or if extremely high use, up to $7k off ~ somewhere between 1/5th and 1/4th off from new). To get down into the 50% range again, you're looking at an 8~10 year old vehicle.
Not sure if it's simply people being upside down on cars and expecting someone Else shoulder their poor money handling, or if there's simply that much demand, but I've been sorta watching off and on for several months.
I'm not afraid of used, one of my many career paths was as a professional mechanic while another was working with technology ~ which are blended in todays cars.
Part of this situation is knowing that we're in a really good place financially right now and having lived through watching a similar situation simply melt away in the past. Sorta makes me want to take advantage, make hay while the sun shines type of approach. The old reliable is *not* going to make it the next 15 years till my wife retires, but a car bought today should do so without issue. Not that I want to be buying a car right at her retirement, but it may be inevitable as we've considered retiring outside of the US.
I think that this is a rock and hard place that many people are finding themselves in. A 15+ year old car is going to be much simpler to repair, but parts begin to get scarce and used parts suffer from just plain age. There are a lot of cars built before 2000 that are solid well designed vehicles.
I handle my own situation with a 250K mile van this way.
1. Is it SAFE to drive? All systems have to be in a condition where it won't get me into an accident or leave me by the side of the road.
2. Does it meet my needs? In my case, I'd be hard pressed to find something that fit my needs as well. Towing package, bed in back, ability to bring home 4 x 8 sheets of plywood and 10' boards with no sweat, decent fuel economy, not barred from places restricting RVs or trucks. As we say, your mileage may vary.
3. Can I, on average, pay less for repairs and service than the cost of a newer vehicle? I allot $100 per month +-, so if I go for 6 months without a repair a $600 clutch is no big deal.
There is one aspect of a new vehicle that many people overlook, but is very important:
You KNOW instinctively the way your existing vehicle will respond. You know its limitations and judge without even having to engage your brain in thought. Over the past few years I have been in multiple situations where I avoided an accident because I knew EXACTLY how the van would handle and respond. Ever wonder why people get new cars and suddenly have a fender bender?
Don't forget insurance costs when factoring in all costs. I'm well covered for $500 a year.
Only you can determine when it is time to change. I would most likely spend the $100 on getting the headliner fixed and $600 on the clutch, but you may be aware of other issues.
You are asking people who would spring for a $500 Maaco paint job and drive it another decade.
If you have to replace it, buy low mileage used, avoid dealers, and be ready to look at dozens of Craigslist ads. When you are dickering, cash talks, but do the deal at your credit union instead of in the driveway. Offer to drive the owner to the credit union and bring them back with the money, and they have to have a clean title to show.
My wife and I seem to be on the right path financially, the only debt we've had over the past 11~12 years is a mortgage (er, personal loan to quickly remodel a house that was paid off in 3 months aside). Both cars predate that with the youngest being 19 years old with 292k miles on the clock. Helps that it's Also a diesel and still returns 48~49mpg average. But it's slowly falling apart, age is simply something against which there is no cure or preventative, sadly enough. It was fine so long as it was a $100 set of bushings there and a $50 parking brake cable there with the other normal maintenance (tires, timing belts, brakes, etc...) but this past weekend I noticed the clutch slipping... and it's been blowing chunks of foam out the vents for a year now. The headliner is starting to sag, it squeak and rattles like crazy and every time I have to work on it I end up breaking some plastic clip that's brittle from age/heat or a rusted fastener.
So it seems like time. We've been smart, banking money against this inevitable day so we can pay for the replacement outright (or near enough).
It is time. The car is falling apart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_M
I'm just so torn. I fully expected to drive this car into the ground
You have accomplished that goal. The brittle plastic, foam blowing out, rusted parts that disintegrate, indicate the car is literally returning to the earth before your eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_M
Oddly, I feel the same way about my cell phone (a flip phone relic from 2007) and most other things. Just a mental hangup? Not like the money that's earmarked has been in any sort of place where it's making more than 1% interest, it's not Doing anything for us other than waiting to be used. When's it Enough? Push things off till we're in a bind and *Must* make the change but with the potential of a few more years before that time, or cut off a few years and make the change when it's convenient.
Beyond buying a house and education, we've never spent more than $10k (in on lump) on anything. Too bad you can't find the same kind of car deals as 2 decades ago.
Thoughts to my rambling?
The best time to buy a new car is when you still have a functional ride. When your put behind the 8 ball your hand is forced and even if you make a sound decision, you'll always end up questioning it.
So buy something newer, but take your time, look at your leisure, and buy when you get comfortable with the deal your getting.
Think about the money you won't be spending for awhile on tires, belts and hoses, fluids, clips.
Think about the opportunity costs of spending your afternoon doing what you like, rather than wrenching on her car.
2. Does it meet my needs? In my case, I'd be hard pressed to find something that fit my needs as well. Towing package, bed in back, ability to bring home 4 x 8 sheets of plywood and 10' boards with no sweat, decent fuel economy, not barred from places restricting RVs or trucks. .
This hauling full sheets of plywood benefit really confuses me when people mention it as an attribute of a particular vehicle. Unless you are a roofer or carpenter WTF does hauling plywood have to do with anything!
I have lived in a hurricane zone for decades and can't think of more than twice I hauled any amount of plywood. If I drove a Miata I would still have figured out a way to get the plywood home if I needed it.
This hauling full sheets of plywood benefit really confuses me when people mention it as an attribute of a particular vehicle. Unless you are a roofer or carpenter WTF does hauling plywood have to do with anything!
I have lived in a hurricane zone for decades and can't think of more than twice I hauled any amount of plywood. If I drove a Miata I would still have figured out a way to get the plywood home if I needed it.
It is called living in the country. Just exactly one week ago I had to do a repair to a shed. The repair took four sheets of barnboard from Lowes. We had a front come through that ripped off the punky OSB that had been used before. Thanks for asking.
I also sometimes buy tileboard or masonite for projects, like stiff mounting backing for movie posters. I also build my own decking, shelving, and other stuff. If you don't have a shop, you might not understand.
I've also used the van to transport a lawnmower and other yard equipment 100 miles to Birmingham to care for a rental house I owned there. Having it secure even if I had to stay in a motel was a plus.
Used car prices got pushed up in during 'cash for clunkers' around 08-09 as supply of used vehicles went down and then people discovered that what used to be thought of as a high mileage used car still had a lot of low repair rate functional life on the road, prices never really returned to where they were pre-08.
These days, you can often find a new car from the previous model year at enough of a discount on a dealer's lot that it's pretty much a wash price-wise compared to a 2-3 year old Toyota or Honda. Steep depreciation once you drive a new car off the lot is now the realm of German luxury cars that still have a bad repair reputation a few years out or unpopular models that just never caught on with the American public. I'm thinking of something like the Toyota Venza, which is a perfectly nice vehicle and Toyota's attempt at a Subaru Outback. But people who wanted an Outback went ahead and bought the Outback, Toyota discontinued the Venza in North America, and if you can find a Venza for resale, it's more discounted from original MSRP than the far more popular Camry or Corolla of similar vintage.
This hauling full sheets of plywood benefit really confuses me when people mention it as an attribute of a particular vehicle. Unless you are a roofer or carpenter WTF does hauling plywood have to do with anything!
Beyond the above poster using it an example of covering your needs, I see it as simply an indication of room to haul larger items. I'm a retired motorcycle mechanic, I used to haul bikes a lot. A sheet of ply indicates the ability to haul 2 street bikes or 3~4 dirtbikes. Or a ton of paving stones, river rocks, etc... It's not that people are often buying sheetgoods, it's just a handy indicator of the Type of vehicle (large cargo area).
I have a truck and van, beyond my weekly grocery trip I'm using those to haul things that just aren't possible with any other type of vehicle on more than half my trips. Last one was delivering a freezer to my brother-in-law once my new one was in. Time before that was a "bed load" of manure/compost for my garden (have fun with That in your miata. )
Anyway, back to my original topic... I was thinking about this while walking my dog this evening and realized that I'm completely glazing over my time. While I don't bring in much money, my time is spent keeping as much money from going out as possible by maintaining what we have and doing what most people pay for. Auto maintenance is one of those things, but when it's a Constant thing (the above mentioned van, and it's on the chopping block with no remorse once I get it running again), I have no time for Other things. Fun things included, and let me tell you that I very much fit the saying "all work and no play makes Jack a royal grump". While the car isn't to the levels of my van, it's substantially more than years past. It's been in the shop 4 times this year for unexpected issues. That's a significant uptick from years prior. Thankfully it hasn't Stranded anyone (flat tire being ignored here), but the potential is higher now than anytime in the past and I am VERY conscious of my wife's time. She has a time-sensitive job (medical) and being late can have serious negative consequences at times.
Anyway, I don't feel the car is run into the ground, but we have gotten a lot of good use from it. Just hard to let go of a known thing never mind spending as much as what an entry-level house sells for in my area to replace it.
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