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Old 10-18-2018, 10:32 AM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
4,016 posts, read 1,786,328 times
Reputation: 13833

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After years of hassle with the Giant Machines & their ever-rising costs for bungled bundles; I finally went back to how I started: A small, local service with no contracts.

I get high-speed, wireless broadband (14 mbps) for $39/month & it has only gone down one time (for 3 hours) during a wind/electrical storm; compared to the old man's Direct TV, which has gone in & out five times in the last six months, due to who knows what. You can get up to 70mbps ($69/month) through them but I have 3 teenagers at home using Netflix, one PC, two Chromebooks & one iPad, all through this service & have never had an issue.

I can pay cash if I want to & I don't even get billed. This last month I had to pay 5 days late & they didn't even bother to shut it off. The first guy back in the 1990's ran it out of his house & only took cash. You could sign up under the name Minnie Mouse if you wanted to, he didn't care.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,100 posts, read 1,045,425 times
Reputation: 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I wasn’t really asking for sympathy but thanks anyway.
I think I got misunderstood somewhere above. The rates you are complaining about losing date from a decade ago, in general; that you had them longer and then grandfathered in doesn't somehow invalidate the rest of what I said.

The economics of providing wired broadband are a fixed equation, and prices can pretty much only rise for most users, with a few lucky ones seeing stable prices for a longer term. It doesn't scale downwards very well - if the local standard is 50mbps at $50 a month, they can't necessarily provide 10mbps for $10. It's not some kind of fixed, granular commodity they can parcel out.

It does, however, scale the other way: once a subnetwork has 100mbps service, there is effectively no cost difference between giving every subscriber that and throttling them to slower speeds. But the pricing is still tiered - they will give you nasty old slow 25mpbs for a bargain price, because you're a Neandertal who Just Doesn't Understand... but falling for their schuck and moving up to 50 or 100mbps brings you very little in practical terms, while it brings them 100% pure profit on the increase. That top speed is at your modem; it costs them nothing to open the door all the way.

Hardly anyone can get useful broadband under about $30 any more, except where major providers have been arm-twisted into offering "low income" options. Given the overall economics, most users are lucky they aren't paying twice as much for the same crummy service of ten years ago; they (like you) may be paying up to twice as much, but for 2-5-10X the speeds as the baseline gets dragged up.

In general - in general. As Submariner and others point out, there are many rural areas where even slow DSL is hard to get, never mind the gigafiber speeds from competitive providers many urban or denser suburban users can get.

But most people can go with the lowest, bargain, lifeline, low-income tier offered, at increasingly good value if not price, and never even know they don't have useless faster speeds with Super-Blaze Boost Overclock or whatever the breathless flyers are trying to hawk.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,100 posts, read 1,045,425 times
Reputation: 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
After years of hassle with the Giant Machines & their ever-rising costs for bungled bundles; I finally went back to how I started: A small, local service with no contracts.
Which simply doesn't exist for any significant percentage of users.

That you can go back to (or stay with) modest speeds is the dirty little secret of the industry; that the majority of subscribers have one primary and maybe one limited secondary choice of provider, and not a truly competitive market or many options, is the reality.

But everyone should go with any local provider who offers the best combination of price, value and reliability - utterly irrespective of their other service offerings. Which means small local providers who don't have a single cable channel or phone service are in play against Comcast and whoever the local DSL service is.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:56 PM
 
11,409 posts, read 6,453,753 times
Reputation: 6165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I think I got misunderstood somewhere above. The rates you are complaining about losing date from a decade ago, in general; that you had them longer and then grandfathered in doesn't somehow invalidate the rest of what I said.

The economics of providing wired broadband are a fixed equation, and prices can pretty much only rise for most users, with a few lucky ones seeing stable prices for a longer term. It doesn't scale downwards very well - if the local standard is 50mbps at $50 a month, they can't necessarily provide 10mbps for $10. It's not some kind of fixed, granular commodity they can parcel out.

It does, however, scale the other way: once a subnetwork has 100mbps service, there is effectively no cost difference between giving every subscriber that and throttling them to slower speeds. But the pricing is still tiered - they will give you nasty old slow 25mpbs for a bargain price, because you're a Neandertal who Just Doesn't Understand... but falling for their schuck and moving up to 50 or 100mbps brings you very little in practical terms, while it brings them 100% pure profit on the increase. That top speed is at your modem; it costs them nothing to open the door all the way.

Hardly anyone can get useful broadband under about $30 any more, except where major providers have been arm-twisted into offering "low income" options. Given the overall economics, most users are lucky they aren't paying twice as much for the same crummy service of ten years ago; they (like you) may be paying up to twice as much, but for 2-5-10X the speeds as the baseline gets dragged up.

In general - in general. As Submariner and others point out, there are many rural areas where even slow DSL is hard to get, never mind the gigafiber speeds from competitive providers many urban or denser suburban users can get.

But most people can go with the lowest, bargain, lifeline, low-income tier offered, at increasingly good value if not price, and never even know they don't have useless faster speeds with Super-Blaze Boost Overclock or whatever the breathless flyers are trying to hawk.
Where did I say I was grandfathered in 10 years ago? Time Warnerís cheapest internet was available to any new customer just a few years ago.

The ďwhyĒ in why itís not available is kinda irrelevant. Itís simply something that once couldíve been had cheaper but is no longer available.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,100 posts, read 1,045,425 times
Reputation: 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
The ďwhyĒ in why itís not available is kinda irrelevant. Itís simply something that once couldíve been had cheaper but is no longer available.
Okay. Maybe you could fill in on why it "could have been cheaper" when you have time. Because given the nature of the product, how it's delivered, and general market forces, I can't.
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:06 PM
 
11,409 posts, read 6,453,753 times
Reputation: 6165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Okay. Maybe you could fill in on why it "could have been cheaper" when you have time. Because given the nature of the product, how it's delivered, and general market forces, I can't.
I donít understand your question.

Internet couldíve been had cheaper 2 years ago. You want me to explain why it couldíve been had cheaper 2 years ago? Why? What point are you trying to make?
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,100 posts, read 1,045,425 times
Reputation: 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I donít understand your question.

Internet couldíve been had cheaper 2 years ago. You want me to explain why it couldíve been had cheaper 2 years ago? Why? What point are you trying to make?
I've pretty much lost track of what you're trying to ask, other than that you seem to wish it was as cheap as it used to be, or cheaper. Which would be nice, I suppose, yes.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:36 PM
 
11,409 posts, read 6,453,753 times
Reputation: 6165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I've pretty much lost track of what you're trying to ask, other than that you seem to wish it was as cheap as it used to be, or cheaper. Which would be nice, I suppose, yes.
Well yeah, thatís exactly it. For whatever reason (increased profit...not enough demand so shift the bottom of the market upward $30-$40?) itís no longer an option, but it would be nice if it was. I guess thereís a chance ATT or Charter could compete and decide to make it available again if thereís a business case for it.
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,100 posts, read 1,045,425 times
Reputation: 3962
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Well yeah, that’s exactly it. For whatever reason (increased profit...not enough demand so shift the bottom of the market upward $30-$40?) it’s no longer an option, but it would be nice if it was. I guess there’s a chance ATT or Charter could compete and decide to make it available again if there’s a business case for it.
I really have answered this question, but you insist the answers somehow don't apply to you.

Broadband prices have risen like everything else, and there are solid reasons it can't stay the same price or just get cheaper and cheaper. Yes, they are corporate-profit reasons, and yes, they are tied to the limited competition of wired internet service. But you have to grasp that those services are different from products that can be simply produced in greater quantity or at lower cost to make them cheaper.

Put another way: even if public utility and your town's regulations allowed a second provider to come along and string cable (well, fiber, now), do you think that massive infrastructure investment would result in cheaper service? Or just competition between higher-speed systems at established market rates for those speeds?
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:28 PM
 
11,409 posts, read 6,453,753 times
Reputation: 6165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I really have answered this question, but you insist the answers somehow don't apply to you.

Broadband prices have risen like everything else, and there are solid reasons it can't stay the same price or just get cheaper and cheaper. Yes, they are corporate-profit reasons, and yes, they are tied to the limited competition of wired internet service. But you have to grasp that those services are different from products that can be simply produced in greater quantity or at lower cost to make them cheaper.

Put another way: even if public utility and your town's regulations allowed a second provider to come along and string cable (well, fiber, now), do you think that massive infrastructure investment would result in cheaper service? Or just competition between higher-speed systems at established market rates for those speeds?
Iíd say all big business decisions are profit based as I said in my first reply. Do we really need your roundabout explanation?
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