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Old 12-10-2018, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,546 posts, read 24,482,754 times
Reputation: 25140

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Money was one of the reasons! Certainly not the only one.
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Old 12-10-2018, 02:50 PM
 
10,680 posts, read 5,157,286 times
Reputation: 7142
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
well, the people who were making that choice are happy so its a win. the children are alive which still seems like a win to me even if they didnt have the best circumstances.
I think of it as I live forever in my kids. I look identical to my mother, one of my kids is identical version of me, or better version of me. Same with my husband. He looks identical to his mom, one of my kids is identical to him, maybe better version of him.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,262 posts, read 9,368,942 times
Reputation: 9194
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
A big part of old age security was never living to see old age.
In many parts of the world, that was true. Not so much for the Europeans.

In centuries past, due to technology, education, advancement in a range of pro-survival activities, the Europeans rose in the rankings. They exported their "surplus population," in various colonization efforts around the planet. They gave their descendants the lucrative colonies in North and South America, Australia, and in parts of Africa and Asia... to the dismay of the aboriginal peoples.

AGEING OF EUROPE / GRAYING OF EUROPE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing_of_Europe
The ageing of Europe, also known as the greying of Europe, is a demographic phenomenon in Europe characterized by a decrease in fertility, a decrease in mortality rate, and a higher life expectancy among European populations.

Low birth rates and higher life expectancy contribute to the transformation of Europe's population pyramid shape. The most significant change will be the transition towards a much older population structure, resulting in a decrease in the proportion of the working age while the number of the retired population increases.

The total number of the older population is projected to increase greatly within the coming decades, with rising proportions of the post-war baby-boom generations reaching retirement. This will cause a high burden on the working age population as they provide for the increase number of the older population.
- - - -

Thanks to genocidal socialism, European descendants will drop in numbers, and be replaced.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:41 PM
 
11,544 posts, read 19,670,109 times
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As part of a couple who chose not to have kids, because we didn’t want kids, not having children over money is the wrong reason. If you want kids, the money thing will work itself out. Not having kids because of money is the path to big regrets.
__________________
Solly says ó Be nice!
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:49 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 3,026,715 times
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Kids are expensive and take a lot of energy. I only had one but the ex wife lied and said she was on the pill. It was a complete surprise to me as I really didnít want kids. I was the one who bonded with my son. The exwife is out of the picture now.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
913 posts, read 807,907 times
Reputation: 598
I have 4 though we only planned for 3 (I love my youngest by the way). We can't live by just 1 or 2, both me and wifey came from big family.

It's tough but expected. We are blessed that I have a decent job so my wife doesn't need to work. A a parent of 4, I have this huge responsibility not only to feed and educate them but mold them to be a productive human being, the world need it.

The world is underpopulated by productive people.

Don't breed if you can't sustain a decent job. (with back up plan)
Don't breed if you can't take care of them, later they'll be a burden for you and the society.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,292 posts, read 5,408,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I desperately want kids, but don't know that I will be able to afford them.



Much of that is because both my parents and my partner's parents took the attitude below:






Both sets of parents were middle to lower-middle class when they had kids. The mother stayed at home through our childhoods, giving up career growth and retirement savings to do so. As a result, when both sets of parents experienced financial hardship associated with health issues where the wife had to go back to work, the wife was never able to get back on the career track after 5 to 10 years out of the workforce. Even with a master's degree, my mom was never able to earn enough to support us adequately - much less save for retirement or anything else.


Now my partner and I are 30 year old middle class professionals staring down a future where daycare costs $24,000+ a year, home ownership is out of reach thanks to his law school debt, and there's no possibility for either of us to stay at home. We also have two sets of parents in their 60s who have nothing saved for retirement and mortgaged homes that have lost value who have health issues of those in their 80s. While we're not necessarily responsible for them, they certainly have made it clear that their retirement plan was their children. It's easier for me to walk away from my parents than my partner, who is an only child and even started a business that they work for in order to help support them.



Because our parents decided to wing it and hope that things would get better, they have kicked the can down the road so that it has become their adult childrens' problems right when we are considering if we should have children.



Excuse me if I'm not a fan of "not interfering with the natural process of life."
What you describe reminds me of the joke about the religious family that was insistent God would save them through the flood...They turned away two boats and a helicopter, insisting "God Would Provide." When they died, God said, "Why didn't you take the boat or Chopper?"

Meaning, there's a difference between general financial mismanagement and failure to plan, and taking things as they come.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,292 posts, read 5,408,749 times
Reputation: 9972
On this subject, has anyone ever made the choice to "change their minds" or pull the plug on the dream due to cost?

An average adoption costs $30,000...IVF is $12K a year or so...

You hear about people that borrow from 401k's, or taking equity out of the house for it. Personally, those are all steps I'd draw the line before.
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Old Today, 01:19 AM
 
6,340 posts, read 2,642,528 times
Reputation: 4097
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJones17 View Post
That would be pretty sad if your only reasoning for not wanting children is because they cost a lot.

Children are a gift and are oftentimes what you need to help make you a better person yourself.

That said, I do believe it makes total sense to make sure your financial house is in order before you start having babies. It's kind of unfair to bring a child into the world that you're solely 100% responsible for, knowing full well you can't afford to give them a solid foundation.
The problem is now days no ones financial house is in order unless you are very wealthy and can live off your capital. If you are part of the ploarient then your house is not in order, you are at will, no matter how secure you think your job is you are at-will. At-will policy, I think, is driving a lot of this.

How many people does any given person know on this form that has seen mass lay offs / non performance related firings, been mass laid off or non performance fired, know people who cant get anything but gig work or pseudo gig work, cant make more than 15-20 hour despite having perhaps a degree and some skill sets (ie not a drugged out looser), etc, etc.

The proliferation of our lay off culture is not without consequences. I get why companies do it but it is incredibly harmful to families that have to deal with it and the fact that when the lay off usually happens its a monolithic company with little to no competition in the area so you have hundreds or thousands of people flooding the local market with similar skills and no jobs. People see this and the devastation it causes and suddenly the guy that has been sleeping on the floor of a one bed room apartment (or the guy living out of a box truck in silicon valley) banking all his money who gets on a plane the next day and leaves after the lay offs starts looking like an attractive life style.

If lay offs were super rare this would be an unreasonable hedge but with the proliferation of the mass lay off people are taking note.
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Old Today, 01:29 AM
 
6,340 posts, read 2,642,528 times
Reputation: 4097
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent_moore View Post
I have 4 though we only planned for 3 (I love my youngest by the way). We can't live by just 1 or 2, both me and wifey came from big family.

It's tough but expected. We are blessed that I have a decent job so my wife doesn't need to work. A a parent of 4, I have this huge responsibility not only to feed and educate them but mold them to be a productive human being, the world need it.

The world is underpopulated by productive people.

Don't breed if you can't sustain a decent job. (with back up plan)
Don't breed if you can't take care of them, later they'll be a burden for you and the society.
What exactly is your back up plan? Maybe today you have had enough work time to build a nest egg. What would you have done if you were laid off right after you had the kids ( I have seen this happen, companies dont care).

People who think they have a plan really don't, they are just continually getting lucky.
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