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Old 04-12-2009, 07:23 AM
 
15,145 posts, read 27,160,524 times
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I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks to all for the viewpoints. I read MND a long time ago and I think it is time for a re-read.

I come from people that are a lot like Ultrarunner's grandparents. For them, frugal living wasn't labeled as such; it was just the way things were. After all, this is where people made quilts from rags, etc.

I have practiced (and am practicing frugality) yet I waste too much and have a distance to go in my own life. This movement is relevant to all of us yet it is going to be at a different tipping point for each of us.

Thanks to all for their comments; I am learning from you all.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:54 AM
 
20,674 posts, read 38,571,042 times
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Great thread, loved reading it. So many comments I wanted to reply to, so I'll try to do it here in one posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDayAttaTime View Post
One of the things that sticks in my mind is that you can NOT assess a person's financial status by observing how he or she lives.
I used to work with many trucking companies, 35 years ago when I worked for Domino Sugar in Baltimore. Some of these firms were still run by the same guy who started the company, often during the Great Depression or just after WW-2. Some still looked and acted like regular old truck drivers and even drove a truck into our plant on occasion, wearing khaki pants and a flannel shirt. I used to go to bull / oyster roasts with them, play poker in the driver's locker room, etc. Great guys, knew the value of a buck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGrace View Post
...So a person in their 30s who own outright a home and car-eventhough not upscale- has the potential to be wealthier than those who make twice their income and live in a bigger house and drive new cars-that are owned by the bank.
I'd agree. Most of us have to finance a home, but if we take all 30 years to pay off the loan, then we pay DOUBLE for that house. Pay it off as early as you can, save a fortune in interest expense, and invest what you save.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDayAttaTime View Post
Not sure if it was in the "The Milionaire Next Door Book" or someone talking about it: Much of the middle class is living affluently and careening toward disaster. Focus on your own financial life and feel no sense of failure of the appearance of wealth friends and relatives seem to have
Heavy DEBT is a disaster in the making. Personally and nationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDayAttaTime View Post
....Never be ashamed of being frugal. If someone teases you for driving an older car they are the ones who most likely will dig themselves deeper in debt to drive a new one. It is the wealthy ones who will understand why you do the things you do. You can laugh all the way to the bank!
Too many good points to quote the whole posting, agree with them all. Being frugal is to set a good example, never be shy about that; frugal is not the same as being a cheap bastard who mistreats people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
..You can not always control how much your earn. But you always control how much you pay out.
That's where making a budget comes in handy. Always plan to have as much left over as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDayAttaTime View Post
A surprising number of wealthy people are frugal, while many poor people are not...most Americans think frugality has to do with being poor ... nobody wants to be seen as economic failures, so we spend our money the way we mistakenly think the wealthy do ... usually on day to day extravagances, eating out, Saturdays spent shopping at the mall, Starbucks on the way to work, high priced tickets to a sporting event, nail salons, etc ... driving a new car may attract attention and impress some people, most likely it won't impress the ones who choose instead to have a healthy bank account and a paid off home. Those who put their money into short-term extravagances rarely build the same wealth as those who put their money into things with lasting value.
I only drink black starbucks coffee, in my own mug (10-cent discount) and usually make mine at home, even cheaper. No major league sports for me, I'll surf a few at home (ten steps from the fridge, potty, car, and no cost to park or drive). Tons of those expensive seats are held by corporations who write it off on their taxes - we end up partially paying for them in our income tax. We buy good cars, for cash, drive them for as long as we can, keep them well maintained, and get 15+ years from a car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Investor2 View Post
Loved this book. I live in the epicenter of conspicuous consumption. My wife and I just shake our head when we think of many of the people we meet here.

- The wanna-be stay at home moms who complain about having to work as they drop their kids off at daycare in their New M-class or Lexus SUV's.
- The poser guys who drive the fancy cars and wear the fancy clothes to impress the ladies but can barely pay their rent.
- The Couple who complains about being upside down on their house when they've refi'ed 3 times to pay for their vacations in europe and the time share in Tahoe.
Not us. Truth is, if some gal wanted me for my car, I'd get in my car and get the hell out of there asap. Gold-diggers are POISON.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
It was unbelievable all the comments I got because I still was driving the same car I bought in college for $800... They said I should be able to afford to drive any car I wanted. The CEO of the Hospital even called me into her office to ask if I was having financial problems She said staff and Doctors were "Concerned" about me because of my car... mind you... I'm talking about a car in excellent condition and a car where at least someone would ask me if it was for sale every week... my green 1972 4 door Plymouth Valiant. And yes... I still own the car...
Love it! I kept my 1976 AMC Pacer as long as I could, it was paid for, held the road like a heavy car, was very comfortable too. It looked a bit raggy, so one night the cops come to my door in response to a call that "there was a wreck in front of house number such and such." It was a gag, the kids in the neighborhood called it in, but I kept on driving that Pacer until it died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabe09 View Post
When I worked at a bank, we had quite a few wealthy customers. I was rather suprised when I found some of them bought some of their clothes at garage sales! I knew my manager, who was a VP at the bank, bought most of her clothes at a consignment shop, and she always looked sharp.
Consignment shops have come a LONG way these past ten years or so. We have Goodwill and Salvation Army stores all over COLO SPGS. Not to mention the FREE category on Craigslist and the FreeCycle.org network. Not too long ago, I took a half dozen TOP QUALITY men's suits to Goodwill, some of them were Hart-Shafner-Marx $500 wool 3-piece pinstripe suits any banker would be proud to wear - I'll never be THAT thin again.

We're not at all cheap, we spend what we want within reason. We are frugal, I grew up poor, know the value of a buck. I won't own a boat, RV, camper, ATV, jet ski, fancy car, horse, etc. What I will do is RENT these if I want to use them for a weekend. I'll go fishing on a charter boat then walk away from it at the end of the day. The more you own the more YOU are owned by that stuff. Don't be owned by your possessions. Every time I drive by a storage yard, I see ACRES of RV's and boats, sitting parked, going nowhere, while bankers count their interest income and "owners" sweat the payments in this economy.

Last edited by Mike from back east; 04-14-2009 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:45 PM
 
242 posts, read 1,054,681 times
Reputation: 203
Default The Millionaire, If I were a Rich Person la allalaalalala

O.W. is not FRUGAL
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:37 PM
 
1,570 posts, read 1,643,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapalua View Post
O.W. is not FRUGAL
O.W.=?
You know for some of you that are rich like the poster above the quoted individual. Do you enjoy having lots of money but never spending it?
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 7,941,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60-minutes-II View Post
O.W.=?
You know for some of you that are rich like the poster above the quoted individual. Do you enjoy having lots of money but never spending it?
I don't know if I qualify as 'rich' yet but I don't see the point of spending money when I don't have to. Buy shopping with coupons, shopping clearance racks, garage sales, scratch and dent, etc. I can get more for less. The point isn't to never spend the money, but to spend it where I really want.

If I buy a name brand leather purse at TJ Maxx instead of the mall I can save 60%. Why should I even think about going to the mall to buy one purse when I can go to a discount store and buy 2 for the same price? Or, I can buy just one and do something else with the 'savings'.

If I save $800 on a scratch and dent refrigerator (when it isn't damaged and no one will ever see the dent) then I can add $800 to my vacation fund and take a nicer vacation. Or I could save it for retirement or college for the kids. I'd rather have a nicer vacation or retirement than a 'perfect' fridge.

If I save money on groceries using coupons that means when I go out to eat I can go to nicer places. If we split a meal and/or use a coupon we can go out two or three times for the same amount of money. Why wouldn't I want to do that? (Please folks, if you split meals or use coupons at restaurants don't skimp on the tip!! )

Why wouldn't I want to get more (or the same) for less money? I'm not the government, I can't just go print more when I want/need it.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,358 posts, read 48,635,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60-minutes-II View Post
... Do you enjoy having lots of money but never spending it?
One purpose for saving money is to buy a specific item that you want.

In my case retirement.
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:25 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,279,946 times
Reputation: 1458
What an interesting thread. I guess I am a cheapy, but ok with it. My house is paid for, my car is paid for (2002 car with 50K miles) and my credit card debt is not high and I could pay it off overnight. I shop at Costco and I eat ramen noodles. I NEVER waste money on something like Starbucks. Oh, and I could not care less about fashion trends. They are to impress others and I have no need to impress others. No, I'd rather have my good looks (naturally ) and just wear whatever. I have bigger fish to fry than to concern myself with small things that impress "other people."

Having said this, I am unemployed which is not good. But I sleep well at night knowing I'll never be homeless unless, of course, some catastrophic illness were to hit me, which is why we need national and universal health care! I don't care how much money a person has, we're all just one step away from being broke due to not having a reasonable health care system in this country.

Last edited by movin'on; 04-18-2009 at 07:35 AM..
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:59 PM
 
813 posts, read 3,026,748 times
Reputation: 670
Default The Millionaire Next Door - Thoughts in 2019

This 10 year old thread The Millionaire Next Door....Have you read it? took a long time to read through. I compiled my favorite parts which still seem valid today along with a few comments from wealthy friends. Hope it is not too long as I enjoyed these so much and wanted to share.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS’ VS ‘LIVING BELOW YOUR MEANS’
Buying on credit is not 'living within your means'. Those who believe they 'live within their means’ simply because they are able to make the monthly payments on their debt, could find their financial situation quickly changed due to a divorce, job loss, the economy tanks or some catastrophic illness. There may be little discretionary spending to cut back on especially for those who say they find it impossible to save money.

When just starting out, those who live 'below their means’, typically reap the benefits of their savings long before retirement age and are more likely to become millionaires than those who don’t. 'Living below ones means’ is the key!

Yet, pop media and culture have convinced many people that to be wealthy means living a fancy, high end life, while being frugal is admitting economic failure. Because nobody wants to be seen as an economic failure, many spend their money the way they mistakenly assume the wealthy do. Like a peacock flashing his tail to be admired, many people like to give the semblance of affluence.

While someone driving a high-end Mercedes Benz gives the appearance of making a lot of money, in reality high end earners who spend heavily, often have very little wealth. Should they lose their source of income they may be worse off than the poor.

Many who prize "things" more than financial security are often up to their necks in debt, careening toward disaster, in an attempt to impress others who most likely don’t care. Purchasing short-term extravagances doesn't build the same wealth as putting money into items with lasting value.

There is a big difference between looking rich and being wealthy.There are people who make $250,000 and are in debt. Believing they don't have a 'reason' to budget, their standard-of-living often matches their income. They "throw money away with both hands" buying whatever they want, then have to scrimp on other things. Don't let your standard-of-living match what you have in your pocket.

Dave Ramsey reminds us "Don't try to keep up with the Joneses because they are broke."

There is one who pretends to be rich, but has nothing; Another pretends to be poor, but has great wealth. -Proverbs 13:7

Although roughly 1:10 households in the US are millionaires, you can NOT assess a person's financial status by observing how he or she lives. Millionaires often do not look, dress, eat or act like most folks preconceived idea of a millionaire as their ego is not fed by the appearance of wealth.

While some Americans believe frugality has to do with being poor, the reality is that a surprising number of wealthy people are frugal, while many poor people are not. Being frugal is not the same as being cheap, greedy or poor.

The wealthy didn't get that way by wasting their money. They tend to know the value of a dollar and are often frugal by choice, rather than necessity. The authors of the book 'The Millionaire Next Door' explain that from their research, frugality is commonly found to exist in about 94% of all American Millionaires.

Often poor people simply have poor ways. Let's say for example someone with no money management skills receive a bit of extra money, or a financial windfall, (an insurance check for thousands of dollars) and "run with their hair on fire" splurging and buying things until they blow it all.

Money provides a way to take care of your family now, and in the future. A job loss when one has money in the bank to fall back on is less stressful when one knows they they won't be running up debt within a month trying to keep up with bills. The feeling of security makes it easier to sleep at night.

Don't save just for the purpose of living larger in retirement than you do in your younger days. There's no guarantee you'll be healthy enough or even live to retirement to appreciate the extra money. Once your youth and vitality are gone, all the money in the world won’t buy it back. life is too short to live a pathetic sad life to save a buck. There isn't a special prize for skimping on the nicer toilet paper or other life's pleasures and dying a millionaire, so enjoy yourself a little bit while you can. Life is about having balance between living and saving and not going to extremes. Find the balance that works for you. Live frugally but don't over do it. Spend some, save some. Looking back you won't regret spending a little more money doing things when you could have. Don't miss some killer opportunities over just a few hundred dollars that in the big scheme of things won't make much difference.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:11 PM
 
16,588 posts, read 3,605,839 times
Reputation: 5012
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDayAttaTime View Post
This 10 year old thread The Millionaire Next Door....Have you read it? took a long time to read through. I compiled my favorite parts which still seem valid today along with a few comments from wealthy friends. Hope it is not too long as I enjoyed these so much and wanted to share.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS’ VS ‘LIVING BELOW YOUR MEANS’
Buying on credit is not 'living within your means'. Those who believe they 'live within their means’ simply because they are able to make the monthly payments on their debt, could find their financial situation quickly changed due to a divorce, job loss, the economy tanks or some catastrophic illness. There may be little discretionary spending to cut back on especially for those who say they find it impossible to save money.

When just starting out, those who live 'below their means’, typically reap the benefits of their savings long before retirement age and are more likely to become millionaires than those who don’t. 'Living below ones means’ is the key!

Yet, pop media and culture have convinced many people that to be wealthy means living a fancy, high end life, while being frugal is admitting economic failure. Because nobody wants to be seen as an economic failure, many spend their money the way they mistakenly assume the wealthy do. Like a peacock flashing his tail to be admired, many people like to give the semblance of affluence.

While someone driving a high-end Mercedes Benz gives the appearance of making a lot of money, in reality high end earners who spend heavily, often have very little wealth. Should they lose their source of income they may be worse off than the poor.

Many who prize "things" more than financial security are often up to their necks in debt, careening toward disaster, in an attempt to impress others who most likely don’t care. Purchasing short-term extravagances doesn't build the same wealth as putting money into items with lasting value.

There is a big difference between looking rich and being wealthy.There are people who make $250,000 and are in debt. Believing they don't have a 'reason' to budget, their standard-of-living often matches their income. They "throw money away with both hands" buying whatever they want, then have to scrimp on other things. Don't let your standard-of-living match what you have in your pocket.

Dave Ramsey reminds us "Don't try to keep up with the Joneses because they are broke."

There is one who pretends to be rich, but has nothing; Another pretends to be poor, but has great wealth. -Proverbs 13:7

Although roughly 1:10 households in the US are millionaires, you can NOT assess a person's financial status by observing how he or she lives. Millionaires often do not look, dress, eat or act like most folks preconceived idea of a millionaire as their ego is not fed by the appearance of wealth.

While some Americans believe frugality has to do with being poor, the reality is that a surprising number of wealthy people are frugal, while many poor people are not. Being frugal is not the same as being cheap, greedy or poor.

The wealthy didn't get that way by wasting their money. They tend to know the value of a dollar and are often frugal by choice, rather than necessity. The authors of the book 'The Millionaire Next Door' explain that from their research, frugality is commonly found to exist in about 94% of all American Millionaires.

Often poor people simply have poor ways. Let's say for example someone with no money management skills receive a bit of extra money, or a financial windfall, (an insurance check for thousands of dollars) and "run with their hair on fire" splurging and buying things until they blow it all.

Money provides a way to take care of your family now, and in the future. A job loss when one has money in the bank to fall back on is less stressful when one knows they they won't be running up debt within a month trying to keep up with bills. The feeling of security makes it easier to sleep at night.

Don't save just for the purpose of living larger in retirement than you do in your younger days. There's no guarantee you'll be healthy enough or even live to retirement to appreciate the extra money. Once your youth and vitality are gone, all the money in the world won’t buy it back. life is too short to live a pathetic sad life to save a buck. There isn't a special prize for skimping on the nicer toilet paper or other life's pleasures and dying a millionaire, so enjoy yourself a little bit while you can. Life is about having balance between living and saving and not going to extremes. Find the balance that works for you. Live frugally but don't over do it. Spend some, save some. Looking back you won't regret spending a little more money doing things when you could have. Don't miss some killer opportunities over just a few hundred dollars that in the big scheme of things won't make much difference.
I really like that book.I know a lot of millionaire next doors.I am super frugal and I hope to at least be a millionaire next door.I thought the book was a great read.

Last edited by C24L; 03-14-2019 at 06:25 PM..
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:08 AM
 
39 posts, read 9,398 times
Reputation: 109
DH and I would laugh (later, not at the time) when one of our neighbors would claim he could, "write a check for $750,000 right now." He was proud of how much he had and felt the need to share it. We never told him we could write a check for quite a bit more than his.


We are the quiet millionaires next door. We live in a low middle class area in a 1700 sq. ft. house on an acre of land. The neighbors all know we have some money, but not how much. We just don't speak about it. We have made a couple of large purchases in the past year, but no one knows whether it was paid for with cash or with credit. We just don't answer those questions when they come up.
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