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Old 06-11-2009, 09:34 AM
 
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No, not that kind of poo. Shampoo.
How to Go No Poo

I've done this for awhile now and not only do I save money by not buying shampoo or conditioner but my hair is much healthier then before.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Talmadge, San Diego, CA
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My hair objects if I don't wash it.
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:23 AM
 
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When you give up shampoo and conditioner you still wash your hair but instead of using shampoo and conditioner, you use baking soda and apple cider vinegar. Rinsing your hair with plain water in the shower daily will remove almost all of the dirt in your hair and baking soda will take care of any extra oil. The apple cider vinegar will clarify, de-tangle, balance the PH of your hair and seal the cuticles.

Shampoo is a detergent and it not only cleans your hair, it also strips your hair of all of it's natural oils, the oils that keep your hair healthy and shiny. Shampoo is a supply and demand relationships. The more often you use it, the more your scalp will overcompensate by producing more oil to make up for what has been lost in washing it. Most people go through an adjustment period when they first give up shampoo and their hair will be more greasy as it adjusts to washing it less. You can overcome the grease by slowly weaning your hair off the shampoo by first washing daily with BS and ACV and then every other day, and then every third day and so on. Eventually you'll only need to use it once a week. On the days that you don't use the BS and ACV you still need to wash your hair and scalp in the shower with plain water.

There are a lot of different reasons for giving up shampoo ranging from health concerns from all of the chemicals in shampoo to frugality, to vanity.
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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<sigh> Someone always brings this up. I tried all that BS when it was popular in the 1970s. For one thing, it isn't frugal. You can buy 16 oz of the cheaper shampoos for less than a buck, and if you use it sparingly, it can last a year.

Hair is not naturally acid, which is how the vinegar leaves your hair. Baking soda is highly alkaline, so by alternating the two, your head is tripping on acid, then puckering up from the baking soda, and so on. That might confuse some bugs but doesn't clean hair very well. What you are doing is the equivalent of using muriatic acid on a concrete floor to strip it, then depending on the alkalinity of the surface and rinse water to prevent the etching of the surface from going too deep.

Back in the day, TMEN had an article by an Alaskan outbacker on how to clean hair with baking soda and two cups of water. For some reason, a lot of folks thought that was the greatest idea since LSD stamps. The result was a lot of greasy-headed long haired hippies scratching their heads. Ever since those days the cider/baking soda routine has been touted. Ever try consitently using baking sodea as an underarm deodorant? For most people, by the end of the first or second week, the body reacts with a health rash and sore underarms. Why would you think it is any gentler on the scalp?

A very few people do have reactions to the primary detergent in shampoo, but it is much more common for the reaction to be to the concentration of common table salt that occurs over time in the bottom of the bottle. You see, most shampoo is 95%+ de-ionized water, sodium laureth or laural sulfate (highly effective grease cutting detergent), PEG polyethylene glycol (a form of alcohol), NaCl (table salt), and fragrance (politically correct folks use the term "essential oil.") The PEG reacts with the salt to form bonds that make the water more viscous (thicker feeling). When shampoo sits around for a long time, the concentration of the salt increases at the bottom of the bottle, and when using the last inch or so, the scalp can feel itchy because the salt is irritating it. You can buy just the detergent part of shampoo at farm supply stores and get enough to last a couple of lifetimes, but most folks buy into the advertising and nice smell of shampoos (which, btw, are great at attracting pollinating insects like wasps).

If you want to use vinegar and baking soda on your hair, go ahead. Just don't delude yourself that you are saving the planet, being frugal, or doing a better job than even the cheapest shampoo.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Banana Republic, LA
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I've been able to cut back shampooing to every three or four days. My hair is much healthier and better looking that way. But its not for everyone. And I have a feeling this summer I will need to go back to every other day, with the heat. I am not doing it to save money, my hair is very fine and very thick and reacts better to less shampoo. If you want to save money, just buy larger sized bottles. I get mine through my hair dresser at her cost; about six months of shampoo and conditioner for $23.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:49 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,141,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post

Hair is not naturally acid, which is how the vinegar leaves your hair. Baking soda is highly alkaline, so by alternating the two, your head is tripping on acid, then puckering up from the baking soda, and so on. That might confuse some bugs but doesn't clean hair very well. What you are doing is the equivalent of using muriatic acid on a concrete floor to strip it, then depending on the alkalinity of the surface and rinse water to prevent the etching of the surface from going too deep.
Hair is mildly acidic with an average PH level of 5 . The acidity of apple cider vinegar is in the range of 5-7 which is slightly more alkaline then hair. One main reason to use the apple cider vinegar rinse is to re-balance the PH of your hair. You can't find PH levels on shampoo and conditioner bottles and the PH levels can be all over the place.

Quote:
A very few people do have reactions to the primary detergent in shampoo, but it is much more common for the reaction to be to the concentration of common table salt that occurs over time in the bottom of the bottle. You see, most shampoo is 95%+ de-ionized water, sodium laureth or laural sulfate (highly effective grease cutting detergent), PEG polyethylene glycol (a form of alcohol), NaCl (table salt), and fragrance (politically correct folks use the term "essential oil.") The PEG reacts with the salt to form bonds that make the water more viscous (thicker feeling). When shampoo sits around for a long time, the concentration of the salt increases at the bottom of the bottle, and when using the last inch or so, the scalp can feel itchy because the salt is irritating it. You can buy just the detergent part of shampoo at farm supply stores and get enough to last a couple of lifetimes, but most folks buy into the advertising and nice smell of shampoos (which, btw, are great at attracting pollinating insects like wasps).
Sodium Laural sulfate is a heavy duty detergent used in engine degreasers, floor cleaners and other heavy duty industrial cleaning products. It has been shown to penetrate the skin even at low levels causing skin irritation. Some studies have shown that SLS enters the body through the skin and maintains residual levels in the heart, lungs and brain. It has been shown to cause major changes to the epidurmis causing inflamation and irritation. It has been linked to eye problems such as cataracts. I don't know about you, but that doesn't exactly sound like the kind of thing that I want to put on my skin, the largest organ of my body.

Quote:
If you want to use vinegar and baking soda on your hair, go ahead. Just don't delude yourself that you are saving the planet, being frugal, or doing a better job than even the cheapest shampoo.
Hmmm.....I never said anything in my post about saving the planet but I do know that it is a way to save money. Based on my own experience it works way better then any shampoo, especially the cheapest ones.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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"The acidity of apple cider vinegar is in the range of 5-7 which is slightly more alkaline then hair. "

This is indicitive of the type of pseudo-science that surrounds the ACV mystique. The acid in ACV is acetic acid. When I worked in a darkroom, acetic acid in the stop baths did a very effective job at removing warts.

The percentage of (glacial) acetic acid in vinegar is roughly 5%. The pH scale has 7 as the neutral point. No matter what the psuedo-science sites say, any vinegar that has a pH of 5 to 7 has been adulterated and is NOT considered vinegar, since it no longer has acid characteristics.

Vinegar in fact has a pH of roughly 3. I used to work in a health food store.
From the major manufacturer of health food ACV:
Bragg Apple Cider Vinegar
pH = 3.075
Concentration/Strength = 63 grain
Acetic Acid = 5.14 %
Potassium = 11mg/Tbsp. <2% DRV / RD


Now, about the pH of hair -
"pH's (see H-Bonds)
Let's start with pH. Firstly, dry hair has no pH. Only aqueous solutions have pH's. When hair is in an aqueous solution it normally has a pH of 4.5 to 5.5 the skin does too." hair Products Chemistry

That makes vinegar MORE acid than hair, not less. (as if it wasn't obvious from observation.)


"Sodium Laural sulfate is a heavy duty detergent used in engine degreasers, floor cleaners and other heavy duty industrial cleaning products. It has been shown to penetrate the skin even at low levels causing skin irritation. Some studies have shown that SLS enters the body through the skin and maintains residual levels in the heart, lungs and brain. It has been shown to cause major changes to the epidurmis causing inflamation and irritation. It has been linked to eye problems such as cataracts. I don't know about you, but that doesn't exactly sound like the kind of thing that I want to put on my skin, the largest organ of my body."

Total debunked BS.
DrWeil.com Question: Is Shampoo Hazardous to Health?

snopes.com: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Shampoo

Wanna know how to tell your statement about SLS was alarmist bullcrap? Watch this - I'm going to change the subject and come up with a totally accurate new warning:

Di-hydrogen monoxide is a heavy duty detergent used in engine degreasers, floor cleaners and other heavy duty industrial cleaning products. It has been shown to penetrate the skin even at low levels causing skin irritation. Some studies have shown that Di-hydrogen monoxide enters the body through the skin and maintains residual levels in the heart, lungs and brain. It has been shown to cause major changes to the epidermis causing inflammation and irritation. It has been linked to eye problems such as cataracts. I don't know about you, but that doesn't exactly sound like the kind of thing that I want to put on my skin, the largest organ of my body."

Di-hydrogen monoxide is water. Every thing about the above statement is absolutely true. Water is about as potent a cleaning agent as you can get, and most detergents work by amplifying the natural effect that water has.

Like I said, if you want to go the route of ACV & baking soda, go ahead. It MIGHT reduce dandruff, but that is about all it has to recommend it.
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:31 PM
 
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What happens when you mix a Tbs of apple cider vinegar with a cup of water? Same for baking soda? Does that change the PH?

Your links show that there is no connection between sodium lauryl sulfate and cancer which is not what I was talking about.
Report of the American College of Toxicology in to the safety of Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS)
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yodi View Post
What happens when you mix a Tbs of apple cider vinegar with a cup of water? Same for baking soda? Does that change the PH?

Your links show that there is no connection between sodium lauryl sulfate and cancer which is not what I was talking about.
Report of the American College of Toxicology in to the safety of Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS)
You are on the right track, now just follow through.

When you mix acid with de-ionized water, the overall pH will become a percentage mix of the pH of the acid, and of the water. The same ions will be there, but in a diluted form. The same goes for baking soda.

What I think you are reaching for is that the MIXTURE of ACV and water can be less than the pH of the WET hair. You get points for that.

However... You can't have it both ways. If you want to play the game that way, the the SLS has to have the same consideration. When you use a shampoo with SLS on hair, you take a highly diluted solution (remember that large water component of shampoo) and then dilute it further with the water from the shower. I mean, literally, what is the first thing you have to do to get the shampoo to lather properly? A half teaspoon of shampoo might need 1/4 to 1/2 cup of water to start to lather properly. So other than when you are holding the shampoo in your hand, the dilution is far more than is used in an ACV "wash."

OK, so now that we come around to the idea that the ACV is going on the hair more or less straight, maybe we should start considering the MSDS sheet of the primary active component of it - glacial acetic acid.

Here ya go:
ACETIC ACID GLACIAL

"Skin Protection:
Wear impervious protective clothing, including boots, gloves, lab coat, apron or coveralls, as appropriate, to prevent skin contact.
Eye Protection:
Use chemical safety goggles and/or a full face shield where splashing is possible. Maintain eye wash fountain and quick-drench facilities in work area. "
Hmmmm....

"Label Hazard Warning:
POISON! DANGER! CORROSIVE. LIQUID AND MIST CAUSE SEVERE BURNS TO ALL BODY TISSUE. MAY BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED. INHALATION MAY CAUSE LUNG AND TOOTH DAMAGE. FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR.
Label Precautions:
Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing.
Do not breathe vapor or mist.
Keep container closed.
Use only with adequate ventilation.
Wash thoroughly after handling.
Keep away from heat, sparks and flame. "



As you said about that other product -
"I don't know about you, but that doesn't exactly sound like the kind of thing that I want to put on my skin, the largest organ of my body."


See what I mean about not being alarmist? It works both ways.

Again, if you want to use the stuff, great. Just don't come crying to me "I'm melting! I'm MELTING!" as your organic broom dissolves.
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:35 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,141,781 times
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Considering the fact that you can consume Apple Cider Vinegar, I'll take my chances. I dilute the baking soda and the ACV with water. 1TBS per 1 cup of water and I only use it about twice a week. I know that it's not for everyone (or just for greasy head scratching long hairs) but I've had such good results that I wanted to share.
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