What does it mean to be frugal? (sell, value, old)

[London Girl]

[quote=user_id;10824248]

What you are describing is a cost/benefit analysis which I think is distinct from "frugality". Frugality is a trend, or a common language term implying one is being "resourceful".

From the Oxford English Dictionary:


/froog’l/
• adjective sparing or economical as regards money or food.
[SIZE=-1]— DERIVATIVES[/SIZE] frugality [SIZE=-1]noun[/SIZE] frugally [SIZE=-1]adverb[/SIZE]. [SIZE=-1]— ORIGIN[/SIZE] Latin frugalis, from frux ‘fruit’.


Wikipedia:

Common strategies of frugality include the reduction of waste, curbing costly habits, suppressing instant gratification by means of fiscal self-restraint, seeking efficiency, avoiding traps, defying expensive social norms, embracing cost-free options, using barter, and staying well-informed about local circumstances and both market and product/service realities

I think most people would agree that these are widely accepted interpretations/definitions of what it means to be "frugal".

I don't know the ingredient lists won't tell me that, the latter things are more complex so involve more ingredients. But I really have no idea which one has more additives as say a percentage of the total volume of the product.

You'll see that there are more instances of additive ingredients being present in the latter products. The percentage by volume is irrelevant - an individual product has more of them, or it has less. Some products do not have any additives at all.

Like I said, you should do whatever you see is the best use of our money. There is no need to misrepresent the other ways of doing things.

I merely responded to your indignation that I had only listed one option for lunch

I never claimed the "frugal" are more likely to lose money in the markets, rather I said there is a certain irony when they lose pounds while saving pennies. I've see many examples of this, from getting suckered by pricing strategies from retailers to purchasing over priced homes.

Who is this "they" you refer to? Frugal people? Non frugal people? Both?
The situations you reference were not limited to those who were "frugal". Yet that is how you present it in the above comment.

I'm sure he is happy to have a renter, but what is your point exactly? Seems as though you are trying to degrade renting, which is rather silly on multiple levels. Buying over the last 5~6 years in coastal California was for suckers, its far cheaper to rent. Even today despite modest declines, its still significantly cheaper to rent. By renting I save money each month and have no downside risks.

My landlord has owned this property since the 80's he is likely making a killing, but so am I vs owning. I cannot go back in time and purchase real estate.

My point about renting was more that by becoming bankrupt it's going to be one's only option for a considerable period of time.

There's no "degradation" about renting, in many countries in Europe it is the traditional option.

For some people, renting makes more sense. For others, owning makes more sense. Your situation is beneficial for you. My situation is beneficial to me. I personally have done very well out of homeownership. Not everyone bought at peak and sold at a loss. My own situation would be a good case in point of the benefits of home ownership but mine is just one of a myriad of experiences.

I said credit scores is a number that is a concern for people without money, if you have money then your credit score is much less important.

And no, its not difficult to rebuild your credit score after you've defaulted on a mountain of debt. After 2-3 years you can have a decent credit score again. Sorry, but the system does not award "frugality", it rewards risk taking.

Bankruptcy is not the "walk away scott-free" deal it might appear to be.

Many people end up in bankruptcy proceedings through no fault of their own - through unemployment or medical expenses. They are not being "rewarded" by the system. They are being helped.

Go and look up the procedures, eligibilty rules and consequences of filing under Chapters 7, 13 and 11.

It is a lot more complex than you imply.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by London Girl

I think most people would agree that these are widely accepted interpretations/definitions of what it means to be "frugal".

Yes, they would. But they are just more detailed than what I stated, but also its clear that there is now a "frugal trend", which is essentially a particular set of tasks (roughly defined) that one does. Frugal in either case is not about a cost/benefit analysis.

Originally Posted by London Girl

The percentage by volume is irrelevant

Umm...no this would be the only important measure. The amount of additives per total volume (if you knew this information you could easily know the total amount of additives).

Originally Posted by London Girl

Who is this "they" you refer to? Frugal people?

Yes frugal people, and again there is an irony when it happens to them.

Originally Posted by London Girl

My point about renting was more that by becoming bankrupt it's going to be one's only option for a considerable period of time.

They will have to rent for a bit, but can purchase a home after 2-3 years You can get a FHA mortgage after 2 years after your bankruptcy.

How miserable, you'll have to rent for a couple of years! Oh no, those folks better pay that $200k in debt instead!

Originally Posted by London Girl

There's no "degradation" about renting, in many countries in Europe it is the traditional option.

Then why are you yapping about my landlord? Its clear what you're trying to imply.

Originally Posted by London Girl

Bankruptcy is not the "walk away scott-free" deal it might appear to be.

Its not scott-free, but when you start getting to cases of high amounts of debt the costs are clearly worth it. I don't think you're going to find many people that are $100k+ underwater, have $40k+ in credit card debt, etc etc going "Oh gee, I really should not have filed for bankruptcy" after the fact. Its usually a big relieve, the debt is now off their shoulders and they can move on. That is after all the point of bankruptcy.

And no the only thing that is complex are the details of filing for it, conceptually its really not that complex. Clearly, many people are finding it to their advantage as the bankruptcy rate keeps increasing.

[London Girl]

[quote=user_id;10830501]

Yes, they would. But they are just more detailed than what I stated, but also its clear that there is now a "frugal trend", which is essentially a particular set of tasks (roughly defined) that one does. Frugal in either case is not about a cost/benefit analysis.

I'm not sure why you're so bothered by this "frugal trend" you keep going on about. You initially asked:

What was "the point" of someone being frugal, IF that person wasn't "broke". You were given many responses as to why even people who weren't/aren't "broke" still prefer to behave in a "frugal' manner (as given in the definition quoted earlier).

"If" (and I seriously doubt this) you really are genuinely perplexed as to why "frugality" has received more coverage lately and why you see a "trend" towards "frugality" (which has always been there, albeit "under the radar") emerging then maybe you need to try to envision a few circumstances where it might be beneficial for someone to try to spend less money - perhaps the company they work for is cutting hours and they are getting paid less. Perhaps both husband and wife worked but the husband lost his job. Perhaps a sense of uncertainty about the future means that people are now trying to pay off debt and save more money because they are currently feeling financially vulnerable.

Ummm...no this would be the only important measure. The amount of additives per total volume (if you knew this information you could easily know the total amount of additives).

I frankly can't be bothered to go into the minutiae (look it up) of individual additive ingredients, how much/little of them there is/isn't in any specific product, what the negative/positive qualities of those additives may/may not be - I'll just leave it as I originally stated - that I prefer home made or even store bought wholegrain bread over food which has a longer list of additives in its ingredients. If you want to trot off and analyse the list of ingredients in the examples I cited earlier, then be my guest

Yes frugal people, and again there is an irony when it happens to them.

Sure - irony occurs in many situations. One could equally cite the trend of "Burberry" as a "perceived" high fashion/exclusive brand - until the chavs latched onto it

BBC NEWS | Business | Burberry versus The Chavs

They will have to rent for a bit, but can purchase a home after 2-3 years You can get a FHA mortgage after 2 years after your bankruptcy.

How miserable, you'll have to rent for a couple of years! Oh no, those folks better pay that $200k in debt instead!

I love that....."for a bit"................. how much rent is that????? Oh, and 20% downpayment anyone???? Oh. I thought not

Oh yeah! It's so easy!!!!!!!!!!! 2 - 3 years on , "I own a house!!!!!!" I think not somehow.... ..

Are you SERIOUSLY thinking that bankruptcy can help someone move on to actually own a house?????

Then why are you yapping about my landlord? Its clear what you're trying to imply.

You can interpret it whatever way you like - however suits you best

Its not scott-free, but when you start getting to cases of high amounts of debt the costs are clearly worth it. I don't think you're going to find many people that are $100k+ underwater, have $40k+ in credit card debt, etc etc going "Oh gee, I really should not have filed for bankruptcy" after the fact. Its usually a big relieve(relief), the debt is now off their shoulders and they can move on. That is after all the point of bankruptcy.

And no the only thing that is complex are the details of filing for it, conceptually its really not that complex. Clearly, many people are finding it to their advantage as the bankruptcy rate keeps increasing

Do you not think the increasing bankruptcy cases are due to a faltering/failing economy rather then people assuming that bankruptcy is an "easy" option? Which it isn't, and purposefully so?

PS: I think you and I are the only people reading this thread now - I think it's time to lay it to rest!

[Gandalara]

Originally Posted by London Girl

PS: I think you and I are the only people reading this thread now - I think it's time to lay it to rest!

user_id will not quit until user_id gets the last word, no matter how idiotic user_id sounds.

to you, London Girl.

[homeowner35]

Living considerably less than you means.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by London Girl

I'm not sure why you're so bothered by this "frugal trend" you keep going on about.

I'm not so bothered about it, I was trying to understand it socially. I think I have a decent understanding of it now. Of course that understanding differs from much of what has been said here, but many of the comments were helpful.

Originally Posted by London Girl

that I prefer home made or even store bought wholegrain bread over food which has a longer list of additives in its ingredients.

And you can prefer whatever you like, I prefer to eat foods with no additives.

Originally Posted by London Girl

Oh yeah! It's so easy!!!!!!!!!!! 2 - 3 years on , "I own a house!!!!!!" I think not somehow.

Yes, its pretty easy. You can think whatever you wish, but you can get a FHA mortgage 2 years after a bankruptcy. That is of course assuming you have done well since your bankruptcy, but its very possible to get your credit score back to decent levels (sufficient to get a mortgage) after 2-3 years. These are simply facts, but you are free to deny them just as you are free to think the sky is green.

Originally Posted by London Girl

Are you SERIOUSLY thinking that bankruptcy can help someone move on to actually own a house?

I never stated that, rather bankruptcy can help someone with their debt problem. I would imagine most people filing for bankruptcy are home owners though, in fact "strategic default" is becoming a big problem for mortgages/home equity loans. People are finding just what I'm suggesting, that trying to pay off hundreds of thousands in debt when you can just file for bankruptcy makes no sense. The benefits of the bankruptcy clearly out weigh the costs once you start to have significant debt.

Originally Posted by London Girl

Do you not think the increasing bankruptcy cases are due to a faltering/failing economy rather then people assuming that bankruptcy is an "easy" option? Which it isn't, and purposefully so?

No, rather there is a common cause. We had one of the largest expansions in credit in the US (many other countries too) since the 1920's. When the expansion collapsed it took the economy down and it has also caused the problems households are facing. That is, households loaded up on debt because it was very easily available, they were able to "pay Visa with Mastercard" for years, etc. But when credit tightened their Ponzi finance collapsed and are now left with tons of debt and really no hope to service it. During a recession typically bankruptcies are due to a job loss and things of that nature, but now you have people employed in the same matter they were a few years ago needing to file for bankruptcy.

Not, why you are trying to make it seem like bankruptcy is not a good option for someone with a lot of debt and not enough income to service it.

[nuala]

Can't read the whole thing, but the reason I strive to be frugal, is --

Frugality helps me live cheaper so that I don't need to "have a job" to start with.

If I loved my job, I wouldn't want to cut corners, true. But working for someone has always entailed "drudgery" and "slave feeling" and pessimistic attitude counting years to the retirement.

Frugality makes it possible for my family to not be kissing any bosses' azzes. It gives us freedom.

[laorbust61]

Frugal= Live Well (healthy, happy, contented well provided for) Stay Out Of Debt (save yourself some body and mind damaging stress) Save Money (Happiness is at least a modicum of security)

None of what I have stated above seem like bad things to me.

[ukrkoz]

Frugality is state of mind. It is keen to modesty. Frugal person does things because they are right to do. That goes for general behavior, buying, dressing, etc., etc. Frugal person is good master to not only money but, to all other aspects of her/his life, and lives of others. Frugal person will not be penny wise and dollar stupid also. If there is a solid opportunity for investment, with honest profit - frugal person will do it.
That is what differs frugals from cheapskates. Cheapskates are mentally obsessed with not spending money. It's addiction, direct opposite of compulsive spenders.
Frugal person is not attached to money, or objects, or fashions and fades. Frugal person realizes there lack of true value, and acts based on common sense and reason, not based on obsessions.

[LittleDolphin]

Originally Posted by ukrkoz

Frugality is state of mind. It is keen to modesty. Frugal person does things because they are right to do. That goes for general behavior, buying, dressing, etc., etc. Frugal person is good master to not only money but, to all other aspects of her/his life, and lives of others. Frugal person will not be penny wise and dollar stupid also. If there is a solid opportunity for investment, with honest profit - frugal person will do it.
That is what differs frugals from cheapskates. Cheapskates are mentally obsessed with not spending money. It's addiction, direct opposite of compulsive spenders.
Frugal person is not attached to money, or objects, or fashions and fades. Frugal person realizes there lack of true value, and acts based on common sense and reason, not based on obsessions.

This is right to the point for me. It's how I've lived my life. I like having nice things; I like having no debt; having a financial cushion.

and being frugal gets me there.

Buying the latest gizmo, having the latest, shiniest and trendiest has zero interest to me.

being frugal means I buy less, often buy gently used things, and having enough time for hiking, cycling and walking in pretty places.....

being frugal means I have no debt. I have peace of mind. Something $ and stuff cannot buy.