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Old 09-13-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Seattle
1,362 posts, read 2,846,740 times
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Bob,

If you are paying 50% in taxes, please hire a good accountant. Heck if you're paying even 35% in taxes (and you're making less than like 200k a year), hire one too. Not hiring an accountant because it's "too expensive" is a good example of being penny wise pound foolish. I think you'd be pretty surprised how low of a tax rate I personally pay relative to my income. If a good accountant saved you 10 grand on taxes and cost 2 grand, that's a pretty good example of an expense that makes sense. Sometimes spending money makes sense.

And BTW, I don't think you fit the definition of frugal, I think you fit user_id's definition of skinflint. Not that there's anything wrong with that but don't mistake yourself with someone whose being frugal. You are simply not spending money. There is a difference which is what we're trying to get across in this thread.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,974,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newdaawn View Post
To me - to be frugal - is to not be wasteful. Throw away as little as possible, perhaps pass things on to those that can use them.
Currently, I'm helping a family member move and they apply to this sense of "frugal". Its absolutely annoying, they refuse to get rid of things because they "may need it" or are unable to put something in the trash, instead they must find someone to take it and spend considerable time doing so. Actually, in one case they actually paid their movers to bring something to someone's home. A loss of money and time.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:29 PM
Status: "I cannot wait for the heat to break..." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Where the sun likes to shine!!
20,368 posts, read 25,499,640 times
Reputation: 87958
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Currently, I'm helping a family member move and they apply to this sense of "frugal". Its absolutely annoying, they refuse to get rid of things because they "may need it" or are unable to put something in the trash, instead they must find someone to take it and spend considerable time doing so. Actually, in one case they actually paid their movers to bring something to someone's home. A loss of money and time.

Yeah I know all about that. People have no money around me but the storage rental places are doing a great business.


My definitions: BTW- This is for people 35 and older. To me you should have learned about life by now and learned.

Frugal- You "think" about how you spend your money and try to make good choices.

Cheap- You "won't" spend your money.

Smart- You use your credit to get ahead and try to save for the future.

Stupid- You spend your money and all the credit you can get on worthless things and you don't have a dime.


It's all about choices and we all have them.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: SoCal desert
8,095 posts, read 12,745,934 times
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user_id, I get the feeling you started this thread just so you can argue

Whether you call me (or others) frugal, cheap, skinflint, tightfisted, stingy, penny-pinching, tightwad, miser, piker, scrooge, whatever, it doesn't matter (at least to me).

The purpose of this board is to give others ideas on how and what we do, then they can take those ideas and make them their own if they wish.

Some people do what they do for political/moral/green reasons.
Some do what they do for the sake of their pocket books.
Some do what they do because that's how they were raised.
Some do what they do for who-knows-what.

You also said, "I don't think you guys are that consistent." Come on, you expect a world-wide message board to be consistent? What a boring board that would be

Last edited by Gandalara; 09-13-2009 at 06:37 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:45 PM
 
25,832 posts, read 49,727,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Currently, I'm helping a family member move and they apply to this sense of "frugal". Its absolutely annoying, they refuse to get rid of things because they "may need it" or are unable to put something in the trash, instead they must find someone to take it and spend considerable time doing so. Actually, in one case they actually paid their movers to bring something to someone's home. A loss of money and time.
Maybe their old and experienced the depression?

You know the old adage... "Waste Not, Want Not"

It often is not about the money... just the fact of throwing something usable away...
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:54 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,505,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I think most people are aware of how they spend their money. Being frugal and being financially secure seem to be rather different issues to me.

Would you consider someone that always buys the latest gadgets, always eats at expensive restaurants, etc yet financial secure to be "frugal"? I don't it.

In terms of debt, why would frugal = being debt free? If taking on debt benefits you more than being debt free, why be debt free?
I think a significant portion of the population has no idea where their money is going, but there are also quite a few who make the choice to spend money unwisely even though they know better.

I suspect that the person you've described has been frugal at some point in his life. One becomes financially secure by living under one's means and putting money aside regularly. The definition of frugality changes depending on one's resources. A millionaire who drives a mid-size Honda is probably frugal, while someone living at poverty level who drives the same car is probably not frugal.

The debt argument is interesting. While I'm not completely anti-debt, being completely debt-free and having money to share makes me feel significantly wealthier than having a generous income that's already spent.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:14 PM
 
13,710 posts, read 22,838,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalara View Post
user_id, I get the feeling you started this thread just so you can argue
Agreed. When you have people who want to respond point by point in each post, it is generally someone who is more interested in a pissing contest than an exchange of ideas.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:18 PM
 
13,710 posts, read 22,838,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drshang View Post
If you are paying 50% in taxes, please hire a good accountant. Heck if you're paying even 35% in taxes (and you're making less than like 200k a year), hire one too.
In at least one place where I lived, the tax break down was:
28% federal, 7.5% state, 2.0% local in town of employment, 1% local in resident town and 7.5% FICA. That is getting close to a marginal of 50%.

And that is why I accepted a job in another state.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,974,551 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalara View Post
user_id, I get the feeling you started this thread just so you can argue
By debating something you can flesh out the meaning of something, I created the thread for this reason. I did not create it to be derisive though.

So far, its just been a bunch of conflicting ideas about what it means to be "frugal". Yet, the forum itself is focused on penny-pinching not all the things people are mentioning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalara View Post
You also said, "I don't think you guys are that consistent." Come on, you expect a world-wide message board to be consistent? What a boring board that would be
When every has a different notion of frugality then everyone will just speak past each other, that is fairly pointless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by younglisa7 View Post
Frugal- You "think" about how you spend your money and try to make good choices.
But this is not really what the word means, if you tell someone you're "frugal" then are going to think that you don't spend a lot of money, try to reuse things, etc. Now, you can refine a word however you wish, but I don't get the point of that.

My problem with people that call themselves "frugal" is that they tend to demonize spending money on things that are not essential, many comments in this thread are a long those lines. "Frugal is not buying the latest greatest...". Furthermore, there seems to be a sense that people that are not "frugal" are unwise with their money. Yet, I find it ironically the other way around. I find the frugal types to be rather bad with money, in particular penny-wise pound-foolish.

Last edited by user_id; 09-13-2009 at 09:09 PM..
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 16,974,551 times
Reputation: 4304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Maybe their old and experienced the depression?

You know the old adage... "Waste Not, Want Not"

It often is not about the money... just the fact of throwing something usable away...
No, they are not that old. But their parents were from the depression, so that is the likely source. But regardless, its just pretty frustrating.

I'm a bit this way too, but I try to avoid it. But....there some things that I still have not gotten rid of, like a RC helicopter that I have not used in years.
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