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Old 04-13-2010, 03:42 PM
12,671 posts, read 20,534,210 times
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Originally Posted by bigfatturkey View Post
relatively safe but i'm not sure if it's the SAFEST in the world though. we do still get the occasional murders/rapes/robbery etc. nowhere is crime-free i guess.

but cost of living is really getting pretty expensive in singapore that's for sure. imagine a tiny public housing apartment (that's on lease for only 99yrs) in the heart of the city can cost close to USD700,000 and a regular toyota camry will easily cost over USD70,000.
Good vacation spot.

Old 04-14-2010, 12:52 PM
2,930 posts, read 6,040,982 times
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Originally Posted by Texas User View Post
and they do live in a middle to middle-upper class neighborhoods and drive a modest vehicle?
Not all, but some are.

I know a few millionaires and you wouldn't know they have so much money. They live exactly where you stated(middle/upper) and some drive modest to middle class cars like Lexus

I also know people that make 30k a year, live in the same type of neighborhoods and also drive Lexus cars too.
Old 04-14-2010, 05:38 PM
Location: Boise, ID
8,013 posts, read 22,607,555 times
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Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
There are 3 generations of rich in a family:

1st Generation is frugal, works hard and builds a great business. Teaches kids the value of a buck.

2nd Generation just tries not to screw it up and lives a pretty nice lifestyle. Raises spoiled kids.

3rd Generation is the spoiled kids who did not earn it, has no concept of how to keep it going, lives lavishly, parties hard, does drugs and files bankruptcy. They blow everything Grand Pa worked to build.

Not all rich folks are frugal but the ones who earned it usually are.

I didn't read all the pages, but I liked your definitions. Obviously there are exceptions, some families sit at "2nd generation" for a while. I wonder whether the speed at which "generation 3" is actually reached is more closely related to the amount of wealth a family has, or more personality driven....
Old 04-15-2010, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ♥♥PRINC3Ss♥♥ View Post
Not all, but some are.

I know a few millionaires and you wouldn't know they have so much money. They live exactly where you stated(middle/upper) and some drive modest to middle class cars like Lexus

I also know people that make 30k a year, live in the same type of neighborhoods and also drive Lexus cars too.
Lexus is a expensive luxury car.

Old 04-20-2010, 01:58 PM
583 posts, read 1,116,271 times
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Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Yes....if it is a means to an end. If you live in the ugly apartment for a year or two because the rent is cheap and you are saving the difference for a big down payment on a house. Or you are investing the difference in your 401K or some other investment vehicle, then yes...it will make you rich.
It will make you get ahead of those who don't save and provide stable baseline to enable you to do something bigger and better, like getting education, starting a business, laying foundation to wealth. However, in an of itself it won't make you rich. perhaps, middle class living comfortably, but that's about it. There is a difference between saving your wealth you earn and growing it. You only become rich by figuring out the ways to grow your wealth when you start at the bottom. Settling down with comfortable salary and lifestyle is not being rich IMO.

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Now of course, this isn't to say you never upgrade your lifestyle. But the point is, you make sure you always have more money coming in than going out....and if you have to live in a cheap and ugly apartment to make sure that happens, then that's what you do.
Now, living in ugly surroundings your whole life is pretty miserable. But if you do it for a limited period of time (say, 1 to 3 years), then that seems like a reasonable choice to me.
This sort of goes without saying. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
Old 04-20-2010, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
The research doesn't bear this out. The rich tend to give a higher percentage of their incomes to charity.

You're confusing the difference between being frugal and being a miser. Frugal is consistently spending significantly less than you earn. Being a miser is much more extreme than that.
Actually, I am not confusing being frugal with being a miser. Quite the opposite. I bring up the point that there is a distinction between the two and that sometimes people confuse what is frugality and what is being a downright miser means.
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Misers go to extremes to spend as little as possbile on absolutely everything, even when doing so hurts themselves and the people around them.
I think you got that concept right
Old 04-20-2010, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I'm not sure if a multi millionaire would automatically fly first class etc.
You have to think about a person whose 'passive' income could be as much as a high six figure salary. People with really large networths (those over 20 million and especially over 100 mil) have quite a hefty return on their investments (granted they are smart with their money, as you still have to be). Basically, even getting something like 5% a year on portion of their networth these people can have a passive income of 50-60K or much more if they do things right. Let's say you have to fly somewhere every month. Wouldn't you be able to easily afford a business class ticket?

When it comes to spending it's all about what percentage of your income (and especially passive income - your interest, your investment dividents, rent from your properties, etc) certain good or service represents to truly assess if this is frugality or over-spending. It's hard for us to grasp it, but for a multi-millionaire buying a 1st class ticket is similar to buying a bus ticket for the middle class person.

And while those who can afford $10 million mansions might not live in 200K houses, there are a significant number of people who can afford those mostrosities who choose to live in more upper middle class areas (e.g.--maybe they live in a 400K house instead of a 200K house)

I think people from high cost areas would laugh when you tell them that 400K is an upper/middle class area home. There are places where homes cost above 1 million for nothing more than a typical upper-middle class area average no-thrills home. A fixer upper (more like tear-downer) in some of these areas cannot be bought for less than 600K.

Warren Buffett's house in Omaha is a good example of this. His house in Omaha is in an upper middle class, but not uber wealthy area. (Yes, yes, I know. He had/has other expensive homes, but you get the picture).

Many, (certainly not all) who can afford the $10M mansions realize that such palatial homes come with a lot of headaches and feel they're not worth the aggravation.
Many uber-wealthy have expenses above and beyond our imagination. We think only about houses and cars. Well, there are private jets and yachts, there are memberships to uber-exclusive clubs that themselves can amount to 1 million a year, etc, there are exclusive charity parties and generous donations, there are salaries for the large number of domestic staff, etc. A private jet can easily cost 20 mil a year and even if you say someone like Warren Buffet lives in a 'modest' home, he certainly has access to much more and his spending in other areas that we don't usually think of can be astronomical in our minds. We tend to focus one one 'token' residence that's been emphasized in the media to create certain image in our minds.
Old 04-20-2010, 04:17 PM
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People who always loose all there wealth are people who win the lottery. When getting such a huge amount so fast, one does not fully think about its true value. They tent to go on a spending spree buying $1Mill in cars and millions in different homes not getting that the electricity and water cost of such huge property's will slowly drain there income. From the few lottery winners who are smart to right away get a finance adviser know that you should put 40-50% of it in a savings account or swiss bank account. You can then live off of the interest for the rest of your life and if you don't go crazy, then you wont even spend any of the millions you have. Put up a trust for your kids or grandkids so they get a little money every year, and make it that when you die, that whoever gets the money gets it in yearly amounts so they don't go crazy and spend like crazy.
Old 04-20-2010, 05:16 PM
Location: Moscow
2,078 posts, read 2,916,035 times
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Is it true that rich folks are frugal?
Yes-if they want to remain rich. As has been pointed out repeatedly, what is frugal for them might not be for others.

I think what we are seeing here is people differing on definitions. I believe you are frugal if you Live Below Your Means. Lets define frugal, then I have some examples of people I know for you. From dictionary.com:
–adjective 1. economical in use or expenditure; prudently saving or sparing; not wasteful: a frugal manager.

Which of these two is frugal?
Which of these two looks wealthier to the untrained eye?
1. 38 years old, family of four. Lives in an average sized 1950s era house bought fourteen years ago, and remodeled 6 years ago. House looks average for the neighborhood, but is nicely done inside. Owns three vehicles, a five year old Honda CRV, a 20 year old Toyota truck and a 34 year old hobby Chevy Monte Carlo. Makes about $80k and invests about $25k per year. Shops at Discount and thrift stores for clothing. No debt aside from house.

2. 40 years old, family of four. Lives in 1980s era house bought 6 years ago. House looks largest and nicest in the otherwise average neighborhood, but needs work inside. Owns three vehicles, a six year old mitsubishi, an 18 year old Chevy Blazer, and a 1958 GMC hobby truck. Makes about $80k. Invests nothing. Shops at the mall for clothing. Owes on car, house, HELOC, and college tuition.

Are either of the wealthy folks described below frugal?
Would example two look wealthy to the untrained eye?
1. 60 years old, family of five, none at home. Owns four homes, all nice but of modest dimensions. Two personally planned, two condos; all from the 90s or newer. Owns eight vehicles, all five to ten years old. Part owner of several companies. High 8 figure income, invests heavily every year.

2. 67 years old, family of three, none at home. Lives in house he built himself 25 years ago, very well made and decorated. Has 5 acres of land with horses. Average looking home in an average looking neighborhood. Three vehicles, one 1995 ford truck, one 1998 Infiniti and a Honda CRV. Shops at discount stores. Lives on investment income.
Old 04-20-2010, 05:18 PM
Location: Georgia
897 posts, read 1,418,603 times
Reputation: 610
It's not true with My brother's wealthy inlaws,they have a couple of huge houses and are always on vacation.
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