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Old 08-31-2018, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
22,706 posts, read 21,760,954 times
Reputation: 27757

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Quote:
Originally Posted by happygeek View Post
That's a conversation about the poor excuse for infrastructure in eastern NC. Agree 100% bikes don't take an entire lane, except for when the roads are so narrow that a Honda barely fits between the lines. I suppose the argument would be that non-cars should be on the sidewalk ... except that sidewalks here don't exist [nor do crosswalks] and the few that do aren't ADA compliant.

Everyone pays for the road (https://www.citylab.com/transportati...-roads/393134/). I guess around here it just gets embezzled (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...193352019.html, Southern Pines police employee charged with embezzlement | Crime | sanfordherald.com, https://myfox8.com/2018/08/01/former...-embezzlement/)

Thankfully I'm just passing through. I feel sorry for the people that actually live here. I see them attempting to cross Skibo Road all the time, often with kids in tow.
I used to live there! I wouldn't ride a bike in most of it.

I've lived in places where it would have been extremely difficult to ride anywhere that I needed to go. Between the lack of a bike lane or even a road shoulder, it could be quite dangerous. I stopped riding in cities about ten years ago. There are too many people and too much going on.

 
Old 08-31-2018, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Suburban wasteland of NC
252 posts, read 151,010 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
I used to live there! I wouldn't ride a bike in most of it.

I've lived in places where it would have been extremely difficult to ride anywhere that I needed to go. Between the lack of a bike lane or even a road shoulder, it could be quite dangerous. I stopped riding in cities about ten years ago. There are too many people and too much going on.
Honestly I probably wouldn't have gotten started biking here. I was living in a lovely area in eastern ID with ADA compliant sidewalks and cross walks everywhere when I picked up the habit. You could ride from one end of that town to the other without using the road. I saw lots of other bikers doing this as well. Oddly that area really just had the INL with ~3,900 Federal employees and their sales tax was no higher than NC's. This poor excuse for a town has the world's largest military base with something like 60,000 plus Federal employees dumping tax money into the area (https://fayettevillenc.gov/home/showdocument?id=7761) ...
 
Old 08-31-2018, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,661 posts, read 1,770,490 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygeek View Post
That's a conversation about the poor excuse for infrastructure in eastern NC. Agree 100% bikes don't take an entire lane, except for when the roads are so narrow that a Honda barely fits between the lines. I suppose the argument would be that non-cars should be on the sidewalk ... except that sidewalks here don't exist [nor do crosswalks] and the few that do aren't ADA compliant.

Everyone pays for the road (https://www.citylab.com/transportati...-roads/393134/). I guess around here it just gets embezzled (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...193352019.html, Southern Pines police employee charged with embezzlement | Crime | sanfordherald.com, https://myfox8.com/2018/08/01/former...-embezzlement/)

Thankfully I'm just passing through. I feel sorry for the people that actually live here. I see them attempting to cross Skibo Road all the time, often with kids in tow.
(emphasis added)

The auto chauvinists try to make this argument, and some of them can be pretty arrogant about dismissing bicycles as a legitimate form of transportation.

But it's wrong: Bicycles are vehicles, like horse-drawn wagons, and like horse-drawn wagons, they are supposed to use the portion of the road devoted to vehicles. The only road users who are supposed to be on the sidewalk are pedestrians.

I note we don't get complaints about horse-drawn carriages getting in the way, not even from participants in Amish country. That we get them about bikes so often should indicate that they are indeed a more widely used form of practical transport than many suspect, even if they make up a small share of all the vehicles on the road in this country.

selhars: You have seen those signs with the picture of a bike and the legend "MAY USE FULL LANE"? Those are relatively recent additions to the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (the official Federal road sign manual), and it's there because motorists need to be reminded that bicycles are not restricted to a narrow sliver of the lane where no bike lanes exist. Yes, the rules of the road say they should keep as far to the right as practicable to allow faster traffic to pass, but how would you expect them to make left turns if they weren't allowed to use all of the general traffic lane? BTW, that should also apply for left turns from streets with bike lanes too. Legally, the presence of a bike lane does not preclude bikes from using the other lanes if they choose to do so.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 05:51 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
Reputation: 47455
A San diegan with a car has 30 times more chance of getting a job and keeping it per PRN broadcast this morning
 
Old 08-31-2018, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,388 posts, read 42,724,996 times
Reputation: 11470
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
Over a billion people would disagree with you. I own four myself and I feel just fine. I like being able to drive where I want, when I want. It beats any form of mass transit, as well as cabs, Uber, Lyft, etc.



I can see a pattern here. People like Eric and me, who understand and appreciate vehicles, including cars and trucks, and can do at least some of their own maintenance and repair, and who understand how to operate to minimize wear on the machine, have a good time with cars. And being country boys who value freedom over convenience, we don't begrudge spending a few bucks to have good car(s). Out in the country, we not only need a car, but can go on pleasant drives, perhaps exercising some good cornering skills, etc.



On the other hand we have the Urbanistas, who don't understand cars, who can't comprehend why just moving their car from one side of the street to the other to dodge snow plows and sweepers, without any real drives, will kill the battery even though there is nothing wrong with the car, who couldn't change their own oil to save their own life, have a bad time with car ownership, their car is a "money pit". And driving in a downtown area is not fun.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,661 posts, read 1,770,490 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
I can see a pattern here. People like Eric and me, who understand and appreciate vehicles, including cars and trucks, and can do at least some of their own maintenance and repair, and who understand how to operate to minimize wear on the machine, have a good time with cars. And being country boys who value freedom over convenience, we don't begrudge spending a few bucks to have good car(s). Out in the country, we not only need a car, but can go on pleasant drives, perhaps exercising some good cornering skills, etc.



On the other hand we have the Urbanistas, who don't understand cars, who can't comprehend why just moving their car from one side of the street to the other to dodge snow plows and sweepers, without any real drives, will kill the battery even though there is nothing wrong with the car, who couldn't change their own oil to save their own life, have a bad time with car ownership, their car is a "money pit". And driving in a downtown area is not fun.
Well, Mr. Jefferson, here's the rub:

Most Americans still hold on to those same values you espouse - and by the way, cars offer convenience for those who live outside cities too, for they mean you go from your origin to your destination with no stopping (except for red lights) in between - but we live in a mostly urban country now.

The way many try to square this circle is to have their "country" cake while eating their city living too. That's why the suburbs look as they do.

No, driving in a dense urban district isn't fun. As Jane Jacobs noted, cities and cars generally don't play nice with each other, which is why she wrote back in that famous 1961 book of hers that we face a choice between "the erosion of cities by cars and the attrition of cars by cities." Up until the freeway revolts, the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too crowd held sway over that choice, but even then, the city-dwellers smelled a rat, and by the late 60s, they started fighting back, even in such car-friendly cities as my native Kansas City.

However: We have a nation filled with people who don't understand cities, who can't comprehend why people might willingly live in a place where they walk a lot to get where they're going and rely on others to take them to the places they can't walk, who think them filled with pestilence, noise and corruption, and besides, driving into them is a royal pain. Yet these same people cluster around those cities because they're the engines of economic growth. "No farms, no food," for sure. But these folks couldn't farm to save their life either.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
22,706 posts, read 21,760,954 times
Reputation: 27757
While most--I think--people live in urban areas, it's not a mostly urban country.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 10:50 PM
 
9,270 posts, read 7,295,540 times
Reputation: 22756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle View Post
"I want" is the battle cry of toddlers.
BS. Everything YOU do is because YOU want to do it. Are you a crying toddler?
 
Old 08-31-2018, 10:52 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,676 posts, read 64,172,365 times
Reputation: 68458
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
New York's an outlier among American cities, but it's not the only one where one can live car-free.

I've managed to do that for 34 years in Philadelphia - not only in the city center, where doing so is not only easy but smart, but also in an outlying neighborhood with good transit connections to the rest of the city.

If you have a thing about riding buses, you might not find this outlying neighborhood a place where carless living is possible, but I don't have hangups about status contamination.
I lived car-free in Seattle for 20 years. Not a big deal. I'd get tired of standing at bus stops, waiting 15 or 20 minutes for a bus, and Sunday bus service was limited, so that was challenging, but it was doable, overall.
 
Old 08-31-2018, 11:06 PM
Status: "Living the good retired life." (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
5,868 posts, read 3,148,828 times
Reputation: 11857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle View Post
I will add:
There is no reason to surround yourself with needless metal and empty space where at least three other passengers could be riding to get around town. Almost every car I see has contains only the driver. Why haul around so much metal if it's only you in the car? I'm a Vespa driver, myself.

I like to be cocooned in a steel cage and out of the elements. I don't mind having the other four seats in my truck being unoccupied 95 percent of the time. I can well afford it.
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