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Old 03-18-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,531 posts, read 2,661,854 times
Reputation: 1164

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J&Em View Post
Best line ever and I couldn't rep you yet, drats!! Yeah, its getting there, any moment now.

I think everyone should use everyone of those old fashioned tricks and hints, just be kind enough to tell the people you hand any food items to that they've been grown with the aid of human poop and pee. In this day and age of people taking multiple showers per day and removing every vestige of hair from their bodies to be more "clean" that should go over really well. The extremes in our society can be amazing.

Tina, thank you. Don't get too frustrated, sometimes people don't want to incorporate what we can teach them from the researched sciences and prefer a little voodoo. In the end it is their garden and their plants to handle and eat, so if voodoo makes them happy, so be it. Now if someone would stop that rain dance I'd be happy. It's going to be a muddy spring of planting if we don't get a break soon.

StarryEyedSurprise congratulations and best wishes for you and the baby!

Hotzcatz the epsom salts are a great additive and a better source for sulphur than the matchsticks ever can be. I use it to and it has been researched enough that I feel it makes a great addition to the tricks that we can use. Bunny tea and well composted bunny poop are great for gardens as well.

Eyewrist wrote:
You are right in so far that science does not have all the answers to everything and it never will because we will always find new things to learn about the world. Just as our concept of gravity doesn't change, just some of the special cases of how it works, chemical sciences for gardening doesn't really change, just small tweaks in how to change timing or amounts. We can try to explain some of the old tricks and why/why not they work but people will stubbornly cling to beliefs even when shown a "benefit" is not achieved from the additive/process they used.

While I think I understand what you are trying to say, your example is, however, not as applicable even if it appears so on its face. All too often what the media reports as science is misleading and compounds the problems people have in understanding why science based knowledge will always trump anecdotal evidence. What was known 50 years ago was that any healing the nervous system did do was so slow and inconsequential as to be nonexistent in a person's life time. I don't want to get hyper technical so I will summarize in broad terms. With increasing ability to detect very minute amounts of chemical changes (on a microscopic level), and the genetics to understand what guides the chemical changes, scientists have discovered ways to make that growth go faster and in bigger amounts. Research showed some nerves do this more quickly than others and science has been looking at those more and more closely in order to find ways to magnify this changes to make them medically useful. Along with changes in what I will term physical therapy, chemistry and even microsurgery we have been able to reattach limbs and have new connections gradually made. It doesn't mean that what was originally was known about the nerves and how they regenerate connections was wrong, we just didn't have the tools to harness what was there.
That is my exact point; science is in it's infancy. A concept now will be debunked in 10 years or less because of what science has discovered what has always been there.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:36 AM
 
25,632 posts, read 25,581,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
I'll bite. Hitler used to pee on his plants and they were beautiful! How's that?
Most men pee on plants sometimes in their lives. The likelyhood is in direct correlation to the population of females in mixed sex households.

Go ahead ask me how I know.

I see a lot of you ppl Googled Godwin's Law.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:50 AM
 
2,063 posts, read 5,566,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyewrist View Post
That is my exact point; science is in it's infancy. A concept now will be debunked in 10 years or less because of what science has discovered what has always been there.
You missed what I said entirely. Science is not in its infancy, nor is it all knowing, but it is a slow building of existing knowledge on top of old knowledge, and learning to understand and use that knowledge. There was nothing debunked, but the media, which digests, rewrites and spits out the information so many people get, did make it seem like there was some dramatic change and scientists now know something that was the opposite of what was known back then. It is not the truth, it is hype just like gossip rags covering the stars is hype.

What was understood about neurology and general physiology was that some animals seemed to regenerate everything, some seemed to do partial regeneration, and that healing was not the same as regeneration but was related. Nerves don't regenerate the way the liver does. nor do they repair the way skin does with scar tissue. Those facts haven't changed or been debunked and are as true now as "then". What has changed is our ability to make something happen by concentrating what was there and forcing it to happen and we aren't quite there yet. Not one thing was debunked within the science and medical communities when it comes to this. On the other hand in the media it was played up as a "new" discovery. This concentration and combination of chemicals to make a change based on what we learn about nature is the same when we recommend formulated fertilizer over a Hodge-podge of sorta works old time remedies.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
29,607 posts, read 50,971,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J&Em View Post
This concentration and combination of chemicals to make a change based on what we learn about nature is the same when we recommend formulated fertilizer over a Hodge-podge of sorta works old time remedies.
Not everyone wants chemical soup in their gardens. I sure don't. "Sorta works", for me, will trump concoctions from Monsanto et al every single blessed time.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,531 posts, read 2,661,854 times
Reputation: 1164
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryEyedSurprise View Post
lmao... hey now, I am 33 weeks along, will send out pee to the highest bidder, plenty of supply considering I am in the bathroom every hour at this point, LOL.
Why is the use of urine so unbelevable? Science used horse urine from pregnant mare to make Premarin. Have you all watched the Burzynski Movie? It is really a documentary about a doctor in Houston who has a cure for cancer. He discovered that there were chemical in the urine of healthy people which was not in people who had cancer. He isolated it and began to treat and cure some of the worst cancer. This man was presecuted by the FDA and the medical board on FIVE different occasions at the least. You can watch it on youtube.com or Netflix. The chemical/protein was found in urine
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: West Lafayette
67 posts, read 169,437 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyewrist View Post
That is my exact point; science is in it's infancy. A concept now will be debunked in 10 years or less because of what science has discovered what has always been there.
Science is merely the process of becoming less wrong over time.

I've been a professional soil scientist since 2003, there hasn't been too much that was groundbreakingly wrong since, but we are adding to the body of science all of the time. That way we can debunk snake oil theories that some folks just refuse to let go of!

A few of us might seem like the harsh sciency types, but we are just trying to bolster the science out there. Nothing makes me angrier than a snake oil salesman making money on people who just don't know much (or have the time to look it up) about the science the snake oil is purported to fix or help. It's my professional calling (duty?)to put out nonbiased information and call BS when it's out there.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,531 posts, read 2,661,854 times
Reputation: 1164
Quote:
Originally Posted by J&Em View Post
You missed what I said entirely. Science is not in its infancy, nor is it all knowing, but it is a slow building of existing knowledge on top of old knowledge, and learning to understand and use that knowledge. There was nothing debunked, but the media, which digests, rewrites and spits out the information so many people get, did make it seem like there was some dramatic change and scientists now know something that was the opposite of what was known back then. It is not the truth, it is hype just like gossip rags covering the stars is hype.

What was understood about neurology and general physiology was that some animals seemed to regenerate everything, some seemed to do partial regeneration, and that healing was not the same as regeneration but was related. Nerves don't regenerate the way the liver does. nor do they repair the way skin does with scar tissue. Those facts haven't changed or been debunked and are as true now as "then". What has changed is our ability to make something happen by concentrating what was there and forcing it to happen and we aren't quite there yet. Not one thing was debunked within the science and medical communities when it comes to this. On the other hand in the media it was played up as a "new" discovery. This concentration and combination of chemicals to make a change based on what we learn about nature is the same when we recommend formulated fertilizer over a Hodge-podge of sorta works old time remedies.
We are basically saying the same thing or maybe I shouldn't have used debunk and remained with infancy as my point. Just as a infant grows into a child to young adult to adult so does science itself; it grows into a new knowledge.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
1,531 posts, read 2,661,854 times
Reputation: 1164
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocD357 View Post
Science is merely the process of becoming less wrong over time.

I've been a professional soil scientist since 2003, there hasn't been too much that was groundbreakingly wrong since, but we are adding to the body of science all of the time. That way we can debunk snake oil theories that some folks just refuse to let go of!

A few of us might seem like the harsh sciency types, but we are just trying to bolster the science out there. Nothing makes me angrier than a snake oil salesman making money on people who just don't know much (or have the time to look it up) about the science the snake oil is purported to fix or help. It's my professional calling (duty?)to put out nonbiased information and call BS when it's out there.
Then educate as you communicate with such people. Everything is a chemical REACTION from the food we eat to the air we breath. It not the urine but the chemical in the urine...let people know that to bring out of their infancy to a more mature knowledge...just like science.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:30 AM
 
25,632 posts, read 25,581,864 times
Reputation: 22888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Not everyone wants chemical soup in their gardens. I sure don't. "Sorta works", for me, will trump concoctions from Monsanto et al every single blessed time.
The nature of things means that the world is a big giant pot of chemical soup.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:32 AM
 
Location: West Lafayette
67 posts, read 169,437 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyewrist View Post
Then educate as you communicate with such people. Everything is a chemical REACTION from the food we eat to the air we breath. It not the urine but the chemical in the urine...let people know that to bring out of their infancy to a more mature knowledge...just like science.
We're gettin' there!
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