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Not very helpful but it sure sums up the situation and the discussion so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu
O course you will do several soil tests with your extension service so you will know how much of everything to till into the soil.
I know you are not in Ohio but you may find the link interesting. Gypsum is not the best amendment for heavy clay soil. Stick with composted manure, builders sand, compost, mushroom compost and top soil. Again this is a huge job. Good luck,
This popped up as I was beginning to post so I went back to include it. I used to live in the same general area as it looks like the OP has his (former) lawn. The links I had listed say pretty much the same thing and it is totally true.
OP I'm not sure what possessed you to go for the nuclear option first but you have created a lot of work that may not have been necessary. There are conflicting answers because people from various areas with different soil and growing conditions are attempting to tell you what may or may not have worked for them. You need to get some local help. Soil in the Hudson Valley is highly variable depending on where you live and you need some local information. Tilling may well be a bad idea depending on what was present in that lawn and what has been growing in the area. Seeds can and do stay viable for decades.
pH may or may not have been fine for grass and you cannot assume any "number" just because there was moss present, since just a lack of sunlight, higher than normal moisture (all the rain this spring and summer) and standing moisture in compacted soil all can cause moss to grow ALL BY THEMSELVES and still have soil in the normal pH range. You need to stop before you do anything and find out just what kind of soil you have, what it's pH is and preferably a little detail on other minerals needed for healthy lawn. Don't make the mistake of getting the cheap soil test kits on the shelves at the box stores and some of the chain nurseries, you will find they can be off on pH by a significant amount. Check in with your local cooperative extension office and they can direct you to the lab that does soil tests for your county or region. You will get back accurate, lab done results. Usually the report will provide recommendations for what quantities of additives and fertilizers you may need to grow a healthy lawn. While you are at the extension office you may want to explain what you have done and see if someone there can give you some direction specific to your soil conditions and which grass seed will have the densest growth. Grass that grows well in full sun will not be as healthy in shadier conditions so you may get recommendations for different types.
The following are for CT and NJ- the closest regional advice on lawn care.
The following also has advice for those who wish to be a little more organic in their gardening that you may want to learn from as you attempt to regrow something.
Tappan,
Whatever you do, don't till that soil.
When you till, you not only release all the weed seeds, you are making the
yard uneven.
So if you till the yard, you will have weeds coming up when you water and uneven
ground where ever you till.
Rake as much of the dead stuff as you possible can, sprinkle and water in composted
manure as much as you can afford to spread down, and in September, seed.
Why does the moss bother you so much?
If it is growing in the shade, leave it be.
Grass isn't going to grow there anywhere.
Usually people use STRAW to cover the seeds. Not hay. Hay is for horses.
If you really want to you can add some lime when you lay the composted manure.
Buy as much of it as you can afford.
You will have your lawn for the winter if you do this. Also, don't put a preemergence
down in the spring, reseed in April, to have a nice thick lawn for summer.
No Kudzu and J &Em, I'd rep you guys if I could. I went nuclear cause I couldn't take it anymore with the weeds taking over. Basically, I had nothing to lose. I had a landscaper mow and take care the lawn but he would sometimes forget to treat the lawn to prevent weeds and weeds started to spread. So, I started to care of it myself this summer. Besides the weeds, the yard actually looks nice with the new pavers put in. I've spent enough money hiring someone to do the pavers, I thought I'd do the lawn myself.
Butterfly, yes I was a bit concern about the weeds popping up if I do till.
The only reason the moss bothers me is that they started growing in between some of the pavers.
I'll try the straw to cover up the seeds. I think the straw will also retain moisture for the seeds.
Btw, is it ok for me to store leftover seeds for the winter in a cool area like an attach garage if I do have leftover seeds? I'm planning to buy 50lbs of seeds and they will be in a plastic bin.
Yes. My thinking is that, depending on the type of grass and how heavily established it was, it may actually be a lot less work to rent a sod cutter for a day than to raise twenty or thirty blisters trying to break the lawn down with a tine rake and it may not be a bad idea to skim an inch of Roundup treated dirt off the lawn. Of course, it can be a real booger to get rid of a trailer load of dead sod - but that may be what is called for. A good lawn with healthy grass should be less and less work every year; this seems like a less than ideal start if that is the goal.
Roundup? Um Monsanto anyone? I did that one year before I knew, I sprayed my lawn and it died. It will be one year before anything can grow where you sprayed. I wouldn't bother before that, you've contaminated the soil with that poison. I don't understand peoples obsession with manicured lawns. Fortunately in Nashville "weed" lawns are what most people have and I love it. Wild strawberries and all the other natural weeds when mowed look as good or better than over manicured lawns. If I was wealthy enough to have a home in some sort of subdivision or neighborhood that required a formal lawn I'd be able to afford a gardener. I also find pulling weeds far more effective in the long run; I pulled dandelions by hand for a couple of years and now not just my yard but most of my block has no dandelion flowers. Remember those weed killers are deadly toxic poisons that you are exposing yourself to as well as pets, kids and wildlife.
Also: DON'T USE GYPSUM. I don't know where the rumor started that gypsum breaks up clay soil, but it doesn't. Unless you have salty soil or water retention problems in your soil, you NEVER need to use gypsum. Organic matter is what you need to add.
Rake the dead stuff. Get rid of it however you like.
Core aerate. Spread some compost.
Verticut in two directions.
Seed.
Apply starter fertilizer.
Lightly mulch the seed with some of the raked up clippings.
Please, don't make this any more complicated than you have to. And forget about controlling weeds until next spring.
Roundup? Um Monsanto anyone? I did that one year before I knew, I sprayed my lawn and it died. It will be one year before anything can grow where you sprayed. I wouldn't bother before that, you've contaminated the soil with that poison. I don't understand peoples obsession with manicured lawns. Fortunately in Nashville "weed" lawns are what most people have and I love it. Wild strawberries and all the other natural weeds when mowed look as good or better than over manicured lawns. If I was wealthy enough to have a home in some sort of subdivision or neighborhood that required a formal lawn I'd be able to afford a gardener. I also find pulling weeds far more effective in the long run; I pulled dandelions by hand for a couple of years and now not just my yard but most of my block has no dandelion flowers. Remember those weed killers are deadly toxic poisons that you are exposing yourself to as well as pets, kids and wildlife.
Here is how wrong you are. Since Roundup only works by translocating to roots through foliage, you can actually put down seed in very short order after applying it. You could spray Roundup right on the seed and it wouldn't affect the germination or growth because it wasn't sprayed 0on the foliage. But you wouldn't spray Roundup on grass seed because (a) it would be a waste of effort and (b) it would be a waste of Roundup.
Also, you don't drench soil with Roundup. You spray the blades of grass. The chemical is absorbed and then moves down to the roots, where it kills the plant. Then it all biodegrades in about two months. Soil organisms devour the dead roots and chemical, and they are none the worse for it. The soil is not poisoned.
There are some lawn chemicals that persist in soil and affect plant growth for varying lengths of time. Glyphosate (Roundup) is not one of them.
Geeze, we're not talking napalm here. Get your facts straight.
Here is how wrong you are. Since Roundup only works by translocating to roots through foliage, you can actually put down seed in very short order after applying it. You could spray Roundup right on the seed and it wouldn't affect the germination or growth because it wasn't sprayed 0on the foliage. But you wouldn't spray Roundup on grass seed because (a) it would be a waste of effort and (b) it would be a waste of Roundup.
Also, you don't drench soil with Roundup. You spray the blades of grass. The chemical is absorbed and then moves down to the roots, where it kills the plant. Then it all biodegrades in about two months. Soil organisms devour the dead roots and chemical, and they are none the worse for it. The soil is not poisoned.
There are some lawn chemicals that persist in soil and affect plant growth for varying lengths of time. Glyphosate (Roundup) is not one of them.
Geeze, we're not talking napalm here. Get your facts straight.
I agree for the most part, but glyphosphate half-life varies with different soil types. In loamy, looser soils the half life can be as short as a few days - but it can be 150 days in heavy clay soil. In addition, if you don't have good drainage you may be exposing any shoots to low concentrations of glyphosphate every time it rains or every time you water for as much as a year.
I know it's too late now, but I think solarization with black plastic sheeting is a better option all around with the exception of "general ease".
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