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Old 01-07-2017, 11:31 AM
 
1,134 posts, read 557,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
The Scilly Isles have a very similar climate to you.

In terms of rainfall pattern, the central south coast (Portsmouth) has an almost Mediterranean pattern.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isles_of_Scilly#Climate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southsea#Climate

thanks for the links.


SADLY, the Scilly Isles (and their benign climate) may be rather similar to ours but NOT identical or we would be able to safely and securely grow some of the phoenix palms and metrosideros and other assorted horticultural delicacies that delight in conditions there. OTOH, go about about 100km to Brookings, Oregon at lat. 42 North or even further and better to Eureka, California at around lat. 40 and then you can get a much better more secure taste of the Scilly type climatic and horticultural experience. so near and yet so far.


still, with all my climate lacks and all the possible plants I'm missing I can grow so many beautiful and interesting things from all over the world (even as you no doubt can as well) along with all the possible stuff I just haven't been able to obtain so far that are at least reasonable possibilities for where I am, can't really be too sad at supposedly lacking no new worlds to conquer or plants to plant, LOL.


BTW, if you are interested in finding new plants to amaze and frustrate you look at the wonderful and wonderfully expensive book "new plants in cultivation" (think it was produced by the international dendrology society and Kew gardens)---full of neat stuff that's rare and difficult to find on either side of the pond!!!


personal note: somebody very kindly "repped" me for certain comments made on this thread and also asked a question at that time with the "rep". since the person did not leave a "signature" I'm not sure who I should respond to so whoever you are and wherever you are THANKS and to answer your question, this unworthy one is NOT a "master gardener" of any sort just a plain old dirt digger learning by both (seemingly) all too few triumphs and (seemingly) all too many tribulations like most everybody else here is.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 01-07-2017 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:58 AM
B87
 
Location: Norwich, UK
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We can grow Phoenix palms and washingtonias in London unprotected and we have colder winters than you. Our average low in January is 36f, and usually the coldest night of the year will be about -5c / 23f.

The most northerly fruiting grapefruit tree in the world is in London, 51n for a citrus!
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:25 PM
 
1,134 posts, read 557,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
We can grow Phoenix palms and washingtonias in London unprotected and we have colder winters than you. Our average low in January is 36f, and usually the coldest night of the year will be about -5c / 23f.

The most northerly fruiting grapefruit tree in the world is in London, 51n for a citrus!

great and yes, have already seen pictures of such things. I would be interested in just how much the "urban heat island" effect has on what can grow and of course what is the particular (favorable) microclimate the palms and citrus grow in.


that said, yes, you can find phoenix and washingtonia palms right here but they are rare and rather small and seemingly liable to the occasional "hard" winter. go a little further south to Brookings and Eureka and you can have all these things and even more besides. the fact that our summers right here are generally cooler on the coast than London which is a bit inland likely also has an effect on a palms potential winter hardiness and it's ability to recover from any winter damage. perhaps if one had a tall (two stories or taller) south or west facing wall sheltered from the prevailing cool winds and planted the palm close to the wall AND as a larger plant one might in time get a true specimen sized plant but such blessed microclimates are not that common and most people think of our garden uses for such places like growing tomatoes!!


from a practical POV in our particular place, one can get a fairly nice "palmy"/subtropical type look much quicker and more reliably by planting a cordyline australis or a trachycarpus. throw in (gently, though) some eucalyptus (have about 20 species some close to 15m tall), acacias, phormiums, and various evergreen oaks (have about 20 different types), magnolias and "laurels" of various types (umbellularia, persea, cinnamomum, laurus), bottlebrush, grevilleas, telopeas, banksias, and i really don't mind too much the lack of the other palms or even the citrus (and there's probably no room left for anything else, anyway, LOL).
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:48 PM
B87
 
Location: Norwich, UK
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The temperatures I gave above are for Heathrow Airport which is on the edge of London and outside the UHI (zone 9a). Central London is around 0.5-1c warmer per month, and is in 9b. In central London, there are just a handful of frosts per year, vs 30 frosts at Heathrow.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Climate

Looking at your last paragraph, we have a lot of those evergreens here. Cordylines are everywhere! Laurel, rhododendron, acacia and eucalyptus are common too.

The holm oak, bay laurel, camellia, loquat are also evergreen trees that are common in parks and gardens.

Even though the plant species are very similar between the locations, I find that the state that looks most similar to southern England is actually Kentucky. Google image search for Kentucky countryside and pretty much every picture looks like it could be from Surrey, Sussex, Hampshire or Kent! The PNW countryside looks more like Devon and Cornwall, as you said.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:42 PM
 
1,134 posts, read 557,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
The temperatures I gave above are for Heathrow Airport which is on the edge of London and outside the UHI (zone 9a). Central London is around 0.5-1c warmer per month, and is in 9b. In central London, there are just a handful of frosts per year, vs 30 frosts at Heathrow.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Climate

Looking at your last paragraph, we have a lot of those evergreens here. Cordylines are everywhere! Laurel, rhododendron, acacia and eucalyptus are common too.

The holm oak, bay laurel, camellia, loquat are also evergreen trees that are common in parks and gardens.

Even though the plant species are very similar between the locations, I find that the state that looks most similar to southern England is actually Kentucky. Google image search for Kentucky countryside and pretty much every picture looks like it could be from Surrey, Sussex, Hampshire or Kent! The PNW countryside looks more like Devon and Cornwall, as you said.

as already mentioned, in GENERAL the garden flora of our two areas is very similar but in PARTICULAR instances think there are certain differences and omissions/additions/subtractions and substitutions between my "hither" and your "yon" both in general landscapes or in "keen" or "plantsmen's" gardens.



when I was on holiday in Cornwall and Devon many moons ago the rural areas between there and London the "feral" rhododendrons (likely r. ponticum and hybrids) and occasional gorse and broom looked rather like the vegetation around here and the various hills, pastures, and woodlands ("spinneys", "copses"?) look rather like our Willamette valley which has groves of oak trees, ash, and maple and some evergreen broadleaf trees like madrone/arbutus menziesii---often mixed with conifers. the architecture of the small towns and villages was rather different of course. certainly the mainly deciduous woodlands of Kentucky and similar places in that part of the U.S. may look similar also but the climate is different (humid continental) and the plants both native and in gardens rather different as well once you start looking at individual trees on the genus (carya, (deciduous) magnolia, liquidambar, liriodendron, "red" oaks, etc.) and species level---though these trees are indeed in cultivation in the U.K. and western Europe .


I have a holm oak in the garden but many other different species of evergreen oak mostly from Mexico and the s.w. part of our country---rugosa, tomentella, Mexicana, acutifolia, greggii, rysophylla (aka "loquat leaf oak"), emoryii, glabrescens, sartorii, durifolia, germana, hypoleucoides, etc. many of these are also in cultivation in the U.K. and Europe some more common than others.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 01-07-2017 at 02:27 PM..
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:35 AM
B87
 
Location: Norwich, UK
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Some pics from yesterday of the vegetation.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/46755151-post175.html
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:30 AM
 
1,134 posts, read 557,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B87 View Post
Some pics from yesterday of the vegetation.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/46755151-post175.html

interesting. the architecture is different but the "atmosphere" of grey skies, dampness, and bare branches of winter somewhat mitigated by the more lively and vibrant colors of evergreen trees and shrubs could be Portland, Oregon or Seattle, Washington at this time of year.
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Constitutional USA, zn.8A
685 posts, read 182,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post
thanks for the links.

BTW, if you are interested in finding new plants to amaze and frustrate you look at the wonderful book
"new plants in cultivation" (think it was produced by the international dendrology society and Kew gardens)---
full of neat stuff that's rare and difficult to find on either side of the pond!!!


personal note: somebody very kindly "repped" me for certain comments made on this thread. since the person did not leave a signature, I'm not sure who I should respond to so whoever you are THANKS and to answer your question, this unworthy one is NOT a "master gardener" of any sort just a plain old dirt digger learning by both (seemingly) all too few triumphs and (seemingly) all too many tribulations like most everybody else here is.
Hi George, that was me, sorry forgot to leave my name. - I asked if you were a 'Master-gardener'
because in the few days I've been here, gaining helpful awarenesses & too sharing, really genuinely-friendly folk like you , & Zoisite , & some others have offered good suggestions, & I constantly explore countless questions & Interests like for example permaculture/polyculture "Food-foresting" to be started shortly. Do contribute in this discussion too please
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:31 AM
 
1,134 posts, read 557,682 times
Reputation: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 rainbows View Post
Hi George, that was me, sorry forgot to leave my name. - I asked if you were a 'Master-gardener'
because in the few days I've been here, gaining helpful awarenesses & too sharing, really genuinely-friendly folk like you , & Zoisite , & some others have offered good suggestions, & I constantly explore countless questions & Interests like for example permaculture/polyculture "Food-foresting" to be started shortly. Do contribute in this discussion too please

glad your experiences on the forum have been positive. if I think that I can provide something of interest or of use to you I (and others as well, no doubt) will share what we have. best wishes.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:12 PM
 
Location: British Columbia
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B.C. Fraser Valley, in a zone 9b microclimate. Although with the intense Arctic blast we're getting tonight, (a rarity in my region ) it sure doesn't feel like 9b. I'm getting very impatient for spring to arrive in 2 more months.

.
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