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Old 01-11-2017, 11:30 AM
 
1,130 posts, read 519,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
B.C. Fraser Valley, in a zone 9b microclimate. Although with the intense Arctic blast we're getting tonight, (a rarity in my region ) it sure doesn't feel like 9b. I'm getting very impatient for spring to arrive in 2 more months.

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is your zone number based on the USDA or the AGCAN map? apparently there is a "disparity" based on different parameters for defining "climate zones" and for practical purposes USDA 5 is ROUGHLY equal to AGCAN 6 and if so then your particular area MIGHT be regarded as USDA 8b (AGCAN 9b). as far as most of the U.S. is concerned, a USDA 9b climate (think Redding, California for example) would often be an outdoor citrus and phoenix palm growing area.


OTOH and confuse the issue, LOL, "sunset western garden book" with a completely different system would list the lower Frazier river valley (including Vancouver) as mostly THEIR zone 4 (with Victoria and the west side of Vancouver island and some of the gulf islands THEIR zone 5). FWIW, parts of where I live are nominally USDA 9b BUT sunset lists them as THEIR zone 5 also.


trying to understand and use the several different zone maps can be very confusing---likely even for the (so-called) "experts"!!!
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:45 PM
 
Location: British Columbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post
is your zone number based on the USDA or the AGCAN map? apparently there is a "disparity" based on different parameters for defining "climate zones" and for practical purposes USDA 5 is ROUGHLY equal to AGCAN 6 and if so then your particular area MIGHT be regarded as USDA 8b (AGCAN 9b). as far as most of the U.S. is concerned, a USDA 9b climate (think Redding, California for example) would often be an outdoor citrus and phoenix palm growing area.


OTOH and confuse the issue, LOL, "sunset western garden book" with a completely different system would list the lower Frazier river valley (including Vancouver) as mostly THEIR zone 4 (with Victoria and the west side of Vancouver island and some of the gulf islands THEIR zone 5). FWIW, parts of where I live are nominally USDA 9b BUT sunset lists them as THEIR zone 5 also.


trying to understand and use the several different zone maps can be very confusing---likely even for the (so-called) "experts"!!!
Where I am is shown as 9b on the USDA chart and as 8a to 9a on the AGCAN chart --> Canada's Plant Hardiness Site

See on the AGCAN map the tiny little spot of lovely fuschia colour in the southwest corner of the mainland just under the name 'Vancouver' - that little spot of fuschia is me. Not all of the Fraser Valley is like that, I'm in a special little "hot-spot" microclimate and the Fraser Valley is full of many other microclimates ranging from 3b to 9a on the AGCAN chart. It's a very unique agricultural valley in its own right because it has so many microclimates and produces a vast range of commercially grown plants for export and domestic use.

I'm not amused with Sunset's showing for British Columbia. I love their books and their information about plants but they have depicted BC's growing zones as though BC was a poorly researched and unimportant after-thought that was only included because it's on the west coast of North America. I don't agree with a lot of it.

.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:58 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 519,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Where I am is shown as 9b on the USDA chart and as 8a to 9a on the AGCAN chart --> Canada's Plant Hardiness Site

See on the AGCAN map the tiny little spot of lovely fuschia colour in the southwest corner of the mainland just under the name 'Vancouver' - that little spot of fuschia is me. Not all of the Fraser Valley is like that, I'm in a special little "hot-spot" microclimate and the Fraser Valley is full of many other microclimates ranging from 3b to 9a on the AGCAN chart. It's a very unique agricultural valley in its own right because it has so many microclimates and produces a vast range of commercially grown plants for export and domestic use.

I'm not amused with Sunset's showing for British Columbia. I love their books and their information about plants but they have depicted BC's growing zones as though BC was a poorly researched and unimportant after-thought that was only included because it's on the west coast of North America. I don't agree with a lot of it.

.

think nobody who is a serious gardener takes EVERYTHING that sunset says as "gospel" and quite frankly in certain cases it is just plain wrong in where it places it zones in all sorts of locations north or south of the international boundary and what plants it "recommends" for growing in those zones. that said, NO zone designations (USDA, AGCAN, sunset, arbor day) is completely reliable everywhere all the time and IMHO the best way to determine your zone is to look closely at what actually grows (trees, shrubs, perennials, annuals, etc.) in your particular area and how well it grows there---especially those "indicator plants" normally associated with a particular climate. the (U.S.) national arboretum has a list of such indicator plants for the USDA zones---the ones for "8" and "9" are especially interesting---I don't agree with many of their suggestions but again NO source or system is perfect and universally applicable.


the various zone maps may be of help individually or collectively but think all of them at some point are based on "averages" of some kind and IMHO it's the departures from the average especially in the nature, duration, frequency, and intensity of cold that will determine what you actually see growing well long term in your area, your neighborhood, and your garden. again, think plants tell a more reliable story than zones.


FWIW, there is an interesting posting at the "laidbackgardener" website (written by a Canadian I think) on comparing U.S. and Canadian hardiness zones.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 01-11-2017 at 02:24 PM..
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Small town Tennessee
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USDA 7A, eastern Tennessee.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:02 PM
 
Location: British Columbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post

FWIW, there is an interesting posting at the "laidbackgardener" website (written by a Canadian I think) on comparing U.S. and Canadian hardiness zones.
George, thanks for this tip. I had not known about the laidback gardner website. I found it and have added it to my favorites list. https://laidbackgardener.wordpress.com/

Coincidentally enough the first page that opened for me was an entry about palm trees as houseplants that answered a question I had about palm flowers and seeds that has been plaguing me for several days and couldn't find information about. Now that is what I call serendipity!

.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:15 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 519,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
George, thanks for this tip. I had not known about the laidback gardner website. I found it and have added it to my favorites list. https://laidbackgardener.wordpress.com/

Coincidentally enough the first page that opened for me was an entry about palm trees as houseplants that answered a question I had about palm flowers and seeds that has been plaguing me for several days and couldn't find information about. Now that is what I call serendipity!

.

excellent. glad you found the site interesting and helpful (as well as serendipitous, LOL).
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Old 01-16-2017, 05:49 PM
B87
 
Location: SW London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post
interesting. the architecture is different but the "atmosphere" of grey skies, dampness, and bare branches of winter somewhat mitigated by the more lively and vibrant colors of evergreen trees and shrubs could be Portland, Oregon or Seattle, Washington at this time of year.
I found this interesting panorama of London taken from a building in the suburbs. You can even zoom in and read the time from Big Ben!

It was taken on 30th December 2009, so pretty much the middle of winter. Would you say Seattle/Portland look similar to this, in terms of vegetation? It does feel a bit like a sprawling US city in that picture, to me.

View from Tolworth tower, Surrey, UK
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:17 PM
 
Location: St Paul's Bay, Malta
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Here in Malta we are zone 11a, one of only two spots in Europe with that zone, the other being the Island of Lampedusa. The record low here is 1.4C/35F inland at Luqa Airport but the northern coast has a record low of 4C/39F.
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:45 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 519,280 times
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[quote=B87;46850711]I found this interesting panorama of London taken from a building in the suburbs. You can even zoom in and read the time from Big Ben!

It was taken on 30th December 2009, so pretty much the middle of winter. Would you say Seattle/Portland look similar to this, in terms of vegetation? It does feel a bit like a sprawling US city in that picture, to me.

View from Tolworth tower, Surrey, UK[/quote


yes, in sense of having a mixture of deciduous and evergreen trees and that the grass is green in December. I guess that "there" as well as "here" people's gardens have hedges of "English laurel" (and other stuff as well) and that there are rhododendrons and azaleas and roses among other things behind the hedges. of course the only sure way to determine the precise similarities and differences in the garden (let alone the natural) floras is to take an actual "walk" through a "typical" garden in both places---if there is such a thing. I'm betting that to a Martian (or to the average non-gardener) they probably rather all look the same, LOL.
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Old 01-16-2017, 06:46 PM
 
1,130 posts, read 519,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah! View Post
Here in Malta we are zone 11a, one of only two spots in Europe with that zone, the other being the Island of Lampedusa. The record low here is 1.4C/35F inland at Luqa Airport but the northern coast has a record low of 4C/39F.



good for you and hopefully for your garden and the plants therein. the possibilities for growing otherwise "tender" or "subtropical" plants in such a mild climate should be amazing. just guessing but maybe the limiting factor(s) for the average gardener might not be cold but instead having enough space (in a relatively small island) and water for growing (in a possibly semi-arid climate).
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