Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Garden
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-02-2017, 09:24 AM
 
6,356 posts, read 4,173,212 times
Reputation: 13034

Advertisements

I have a potted Crape Myrtle that I need to plant in the yard. We live in SW Virginia and the location where it needs to be planted is hard clay.

I believe I need to dig a hole twice the size of the rootball and amend the soil with a clean combination of compost and topsoil and keep the tree watered regularly for the summer. Is this the best method to ensure its survival, any advice?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-02-2017, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
4,596 posts, read 6,350,757 times
Reputation: 10584
Twice the size is the rule of thumb, but regardless of the size of the hole in clay, it will still hold water like a bucket, Once I've dug the appropriate size hole in clay, I use a post hole digger and dig out the center as far as possible, filling that hole with organic matter....hoping to drain as much water as possible away from the root ball, and provide a better growing medium for the new root growth.

Regards
Gemstone1
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-02-2017, 07:43 PM
 
6,356 posts, read 4,173,212 times
Reputation: 13034
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1 View Post
Twice the size is the rule of thumb, but regardless of the size of the hole in clay, it will still hold water like a bucket, Once I've dug the appropriate size hole in clay, I use a post hole digger and dig out the center as far as possible, filling that hole with organic matter....hoping to drain as much water as possible away from the root ball, and provide a better growing medium for the new root growth.

Regards
Gemstone1
You have an excellent understanding as to what I am up against with this specific location. I had to use a pick to dig every inch of the hole for the root ball.

Your center chimney concept is very clever and I get the concept. What if I did a similar type of drain, like a narrow tench away from the rootball and filled it with crushed stone to act like a small drain field? But, perhaps the center chimney with a digging bar and post hold digger might be easier? What would I fill it with, bagged muclch?

The locallargest nursery in the area plant trees without any soil admendment, did that with some plantings on our property and I questioned the owner. He said if you use great soil the roots will grow as if in a pot and never extend beyond that point into the hard clay. Do you agree with that thinking? Thanks !
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
4,596 posts, read 6,350,757 times
Reputation: 10584
Any method of draining water away from the root ball should work. I subscribe to the method of adding organic matter to the soil removed from the hole I dig...maybe a 75/25 mix. Roots are going to seek out water, if they are water logged, they have no need to grow outward/downward, and loosening the soil with organic matter will make it easier for roots to penetrate.
As for bagged ingredients from a big box store, I have used them in the past, but never straight out of the bag. I choose carefully, looking for open bags (so I can see what the ingredients are)...I stay away from bark based junk, and get the best available....to which I mix steer manure, mushroom compost, peat, anything but miracle grow. After working at a commercial nursery this spring, I now use what they use for a potting mix, Pro Mix, mixed with the removed soil. It is not cheap, but it works.

Regards
Gemstone1
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 08:38 AM
 
4,314 posts, read 3,992,995 times
Reputation: 7796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickcin View Post
I have a potted Crape Myrtle that I need to plant in the yard. We live in SW Virginia and the location where it needs to be planted is hard clay.

I believe I need to dig a hole twice the size of the rootball and amend the soil with a clean combination of compost and topsoil and keep the tree watered regularly for the summer. Is this the best method to ensure its survival, any advice?


.........."keep the tree watered regularly "....

Clay soil holds water.
Be carefull not to over water.


I'll bet more people water too much vs those that don't watger enough.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 09:21 AM
 
6,356 posts, read 4,173,212 times
Reputation: 13034
Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Stone View Post
.........."keep the tree watered regularly "....

Clay soil holds water.
Be carefull not to over water.


I'll bet more people water too much vs those that don't watger enough.
I look at the newly planted trees every day and water when I see the slightest sign of stress which is usually visible at the very end of the leaves or new buds.

I have been told it's very easy to kill tress if they are being overwatered which is easy to do in this Virginia clay!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 09:29 AM
 
6,356 posts, read 4,173,212 times
Reputation: 13034
As for bagged ingredients from a big box store, I have used them in the past, but never straight out of the bag. I choose carefully, looking for open bags (so I can see what the ingredients are)...I stay away from bark based junk, and get the best available....to which I mix steer manure, mushroom compost, peat, anything but miracle grow. After working at a commercial nursery this spring, I now use what they use for a potting mix, Pro Mix, mixed with the removed soil. It is not cheap, but it works.

Regards
Gemstone1[/quote]

Promise looks really good however no one in my area has it. I was thinking of mixing exterior potting soil, black cow and some store bought top soil to amend the clay and fill the chimney drain. What are your thought?? Thanks again! I really want this Crape Myrtle to live!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Virginia
10,089 posts, read 6,420,662 times
Reputation: 27653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickcin View Post
You have an excellent understanding as to what I am up against with this specific location. I had to use a pick to dig every inch of the hole for the root ball.

Your center chimney concept is very clever and I get the concept. What if I did a similar type of drain, like a narrow tench away from the rootball and filled it with crushed stone to act like a small drain field? But, perhaps the center chimney with a digging bar and post hold digger might be easier? What would I fill it with, bagged muclch?

The locallargest nursery in the area plant trees without any soil admendment, did that with some plantings on our property and I questioned the owner. He said if you use great soil the roots will grow as if in a pot and never extend beyond that point into the hard clay. Do you agree with that thinking? Thanks !
I agree with the local nursery on that matter, as does my instructor for my Master Gardener and Tree Steward courses, as well as the other auxiliary instructors. If you make the hole too "comfortable" for the roots with amended soil, then they will not branch out; backfill with the original soil. BTW, the reason for digging the planting hole twice the size of the root ball is to give the roots the chance to expand, because root systems are typically within the top 18 inches of the soil. Digging it deeper won't do it that much good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 10:59 AM
 
6,356 posts, read 4,173,212 times
Reputation: 13034
Default Planting in Clay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
I agree with the local nursery on that matter, as does my instructor for my Master Gardener and Tree Steward courses, as well as the other auxiliary instructors. If you make the hole too "comfortable" for the roots with amended soil, then they will not branch out; backfill with the original soil. BTW, the reason for digging the planting hole twice the size of the root ball is to give the roots the chance to expand, because root systems are typically within the top 18 inches of the soil. Digging it deeper won't do it that much good.
It's really conflicting information! The nursery plants some really nice pieces and when they plant, they do so with a 100% guarantee and they add nothing to the soil! A minimal size hole and then place mulch on top after its back filled.

It's just tough to think that amending the soil does not help the roots to get off to a good start, gain strength before penetrating the hard clay. Might just be my issue?

Last edited by Rickcin; 02-14-2021 at 08:05 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2017, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Virginia
10,089 posts, read 6,420,662 times
Reputation: 27653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickcin View Post
It's really conflicting information! The nursery plants some really nice pieces and when they plant, they do so with a 100% guarantee and they add nothing to the soil! A minimal size hole and then place mulch on top after its back filled.

It's just tough to think that amending the soil does not help the roots to get off to a good start, gain strength before penetrating the hard clay. Might just be my issue?
I would definitely crumble the dug-out clay from the planting hole into very small pieces before backfilling. I also like to score the sides of the planting hole (and I used to have an all red clay yard) before planting the tree/shrub/etc. to help break up the sides so they aren't like solid slabs. The mulch on top is really to help conserve moisture in the ground for the tree.

Honestly, at most you might want to amend the backfilled soil with a little compost to increase moisture retention and improve aeration, but if you backfill with ALL compost or mulch, you are most likely going to end up with girdling roots. I will say that I have 23 crape myrtles in my half acre yard, and all of them are doing spectacularly, if that's any consideration. I call my yard "Magnolias and Myrtles" due to the aforementioned plus my huge Southern Magnolia plus 2 other smaller magnolias (Jane's and Tulip.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Garden
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:49 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top