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Old 08-06-2017, 04:09 PM
 
13,808 posts, read 11,295,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv4horses View Post
But if you knew the science behind it and the huge amount of research to the contrary, you would question those conclusions. TONS of data say it is okay. If it was a carcinogen there would need to be a molecular mechanism by which it works like that and there is none.
As a scientist I am familiar with much of the science (round up was used on an invasive species I studied as part of my graduate work) and there is real reason to be concerned with roundup. Not the least of which is what the daughter chemicals do.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:20 PM
 
18,945 posts, read 18,044,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
Used in yards, farms and parks throughout the world, Roundup has long been a top-selling weed killer. But now researchers have found that one of Roundup’s inert ingredients can kill human cells, particularly embryonic, placental and umbilical cord cells.


Until now, most health studies have focused on the safety of glyphosate, rather than the mixture of ingredients found in Roundup. But in the new study, scientists found that Roundup’s inert ingredients amplified the toxic effect on human cells—even at concentrations much more diluted than those used on farms and lawns.
One specific inert ingredient, polyethoxylated tallowamine, or POEA, was more deadly to human embryonic, placental and umbilical cord cells than the herbicide itself – a finding the researchers call “astonishing.”


https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...g-herbicide-p/
No one suggested she drink it.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:42 PM
 
1,909 posts, read 645,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
As a scientist I am familiar with much of the science (round up was used on an invasive species I studied as part of my graduate work) and there is real reason to be concerned with roundup. Not the least of which is what the daughter chemicals do.
What kind of science did you study? Ecology by chance?
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Floribama
11,841 posts, read 26,652,038 times
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Sometimes young Virginia Creeper will have three leaves and look similar to poison ivy.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
2,969 posts, read 2,505,790 times
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Looks more like poison ivy to me - but whether poison ivy or oak, the advice is the same.

EDIS - Electronic Data Information Source - UF/IFAS Extension
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
What kind of science did you study? Ecology by chance?
Yes, for my graduate work. Coastal ecology to be specific.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Yes, for my graduate work. Coastal ecology to be specific.
Thought so, because no scientist properly trained in chemistry would refer to "daughter chemicals". That's a meaningless term in chemistry. The proper terms are "derivatives" and "degradation products", depending on context. You still feel you're competent to interpret the literature on chemicals? With little training in chemistry?
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
20,812 posts, read 53,724,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
You can spray them with a mix of vinegar, water and dawn. More can still grow in that location. You are only killing that one plant, not sterilizing the soil. The only permanent solution (semi permanent) is to sterilize the soil, but that kills everything.
Oh and Epsom salts. I forgot that ingredient.
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
20,812 posts, read 53,724,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
I figured I'd see some push-back here. Roundup is NOT bad, but poison ivy is. Roundup is one of the most environmentally safe controls you can use on PI. If you had a science background, you'd probably understand the issues a bit better.

I will not engage in a debate on so called "negatives" of the stuff, since frankly, I "don't have the faith" in so-called "organic" or "environmentally sound" alternative or solutions. I prefer approaches that actually work without damaging the soil, like vinegar and detergent can do. You do know that detergents are totally artificial compounds that don't always degrade gracefully?
I will rely on a good friend who is a toxicologist for the EPA (and a PhD in toxicology who also lectures at a nearby university). He said in the most scientific terms: "Do not ever use that ****, especially near the river."

We have had good results with down/vinegar and epsom salts. It is kind of a PIA to get all the ingredients and mit it. Do not use too much dawn or your garden sprayer will fill with foam. The vinegar is kind of smelly. I do not know how much better it is environmentally. I should ask Cheesecake.
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Old 08-07-2017, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Former LI'er Now a Rehoboth Beach Bunny
6,386 posts, read 8,024,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
Thought so, because no scientist properly trained in chemistry would refer to "daughter chemicals". That's a meaningless term in chemistry. The proper terms are "derivatives" and "degradation products", depending on context. You still feel you're competent to interpret the literature on chemicals? With little training in chemistry?
Really. Wow that is just rude. We all have something to contribute.
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