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Old 09-12-2017, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,369 posts, read 8,780,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBev View Post
I have problem now with my Sears 16" chain saw,hardly used in past 2 years,was new then.
We did move and switched to artificial oil/gas mix.
In past would start on first pull,now I prime it and runs for a minute wide open and sounds like it ran out of gas???
Any idea's,do I have to remove carb?Help appreciated???
It just could just be running too lean and could use a carburetor adjustment like uggabugga. There are other reasons that saws could act like they are running out of gas. A clogged breather hole in the gas cap can make that happen and they are so small that it is even hard to find them. Sometimes the fuel lines will break inside the tank where the fuel filter goes on the end - so it will run when the tank is full and then run out of fuel long before you are empty. The carburetor rubber diaphragms can also get pinhole leaks - but that should not happen when the saw is so new.

Like I just added to my post to uggabugga; elevation can also play a role in carburetor adjustment. The higher you go the less fuel you need since you have less oxygen. When I had my shop many years ago I was located about 600 feet above sea-level. I sold equipment and worked on equipment that operated at over 1,800 feet above sea level. Some carburetors were forgiving and others would be very temperamental. On more than one occasion I had to go to the equipment to set it up to run. I always wondered how that played out in the Rockies with 'real' elevations.

I just found out why your manuals do not tell you how to: https://www.hunker.com/12277453/how-...lan-chain-saws. In that link it states: "Because of the risk of engine damage, though, it may be best to follow the company's advice and take the saw to an authorized service technician or contact the company at 800-554-6723 if you aren't a seasoned pro." The manuals use to tell you; they simply don't trust you anymore! They are afraid that you will exceed the design rpms and damage the saw or hurt yourself. Of course I do not know how people become seasoned 'pros' without practice?
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:32 PM
 
1,633 posts, read 714,315 times
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^ come to think about it,
I did have a airfilter that was clogged that cause the engine to die on throttle up (saw)
I did have a spark arrestor on exhaust clog that also caused the engine to die on throttle up (blower).
Both had nothing to do with needle adjustments or fuel condition or mix.

Always use synthetic 2cycle mix.
Avoid Homelite (they still around?)
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,369 posts, read 8,780,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
^ come to think about it,
I did have a airfilter that was clogged that cause the engine to die on throttle up (saw)
I did have a spark arrestor on exhaust clog that also caused the engine to die on throttle up (blower).
Both had nothing to do with needle adjustments or fuel condition or mix.

Always use synthetic 2cycle mix.
Avoid Homelite (they still around?)
Chainsaws also have reed valves located between the carburetor and cylinder. The 'reeds' open and close thousands of times per minute and they do eventually bend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of61ZBa-deA. The slightest bend can cause hard starting and many will overlook this crucial part of the puzzle. Even a bad gasket or worn rings can allow air to bypass the reeds and effect the starting of the saw.

One word of caution to everybody. One of the worst scenarios is where customers try to do repairs that they cannot finish. Then when the equipment goes to the shop we would have a hard time figuring out what had been done trying to correct the problem. Many times there would be multiple problems caused by the 'fix' that ended up with higher bills in the long run. Missing parts and broken bolts can really add up in the final calculations.

PS I liked Homelite; I had good luck with the saws.

Last edited by fisheye; 09-12-2017 at 06:43 PM..
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:01 PM
 
23,806 posts, read 45,473,878 times
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I have ancient Echo equipment and the simply fix was always cleaning the spark arrestor...

Any impediment to the exhaust greatly affects performance.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:21 PM
 
320 posts, read 233,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
If you hit a rock or nail it is better to grind your chain. It simply takes too long to file it out. I have the chainsaw grinder and I use to sharpen the chains when I had my shop. I also sold firewood at one time and I have cut hundreds of cords of wood in my lifetime. When cutting firewood I would sharpen my chains about two times with the file while in the woods. Then I would put them on my grinder to reset the angle and make the teeth uniform again.

As far as ethanol or leaded gas; I still use the cheapest gas available which is ethanol/gas blends available from the local stations. The leaded fuel runs about $24/gallon (if you add it up) - you are buying it in small cans. While all the manufacturers complain about the ethanol blends; they still have to make their products to run with currently available fuel.
I strongly disagree with this. First off non ethanol gas is not leaded. It simply contains no ethanol which will and does mess small 2-4 stroke engines up. Second ethanol gas will retain moisture after a few wks. It plays havoc with plastic/rubber gaskets and small carburetors. The moisture will add water to the fuel if it sits long in a humid southern, midwest, or east coast environment. Gas and water don't work well, you ever hear that lawnmower down the street surge and sputter because the choke can't hold a idle? Small engine repair shops love this. As soon as they clean or replace the fuel lines, filter, carb the customer runs out and buys more ethanol gas at the mini mart. The problem rapidly comes back


The moisture build up in a sitting small engine adds rust and sediment sucked into the fuel system when started clogging it up quickly.

I don't know where you live but I paid $3.19 today for a gallon of non ethanol gas, not $24 bucks. I bought it at a local WA-WA mini mart, 3 local stores sell it. This is what is known as maritime fuel sold at all local marinas for outboard engines and watercraft. It is 89 octane. There is a great website which list by zip code where to get maritime fuel, non ethanol fuel. Google for it. You can also find non ethanol gas at your local agricultural farmers co-op. Trust me farmers are not running ethanol fuel in small tractors or other agricultural gas powered equipment and neither should you if you want functioning gas powered 2-4 stroke machines.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,369 posts, read 8,780,781 times
Reputation: 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mph101 View Post
I strongly disagree with this. First off non ethanol gas is not leaded. It simply contains no ethanol which will and does mess small 2-4 stroke engines up. Second ethanol gas will retain moisture after a few wks. It plays havoc with plastic/rubber gaskets and small carburetors. The moisture will add water to the fuel if it sits long in a humid southern, midwest, or east coast environment. Gas and water don't work well, you ever hear that lawnmower down the street surge and sputter because the choke can't hold a idle? Small engine repair shops love this. As soon as they clean or replace the fuel lines, filter, carb the customer runs out and buys more ethanol gas at the mini mart. The problem rapidly comes back


The moisture build up in a sitting small engine adds rust and sediment sucked into the fuel system when started clogging it up quickly.

I don't know where you live but I paid $3.19 today for a gallon of non ethanol gas, not $24 bucks. I bought it at a local WA-WA mini mart, 3 local stores sell it. This is what is known as maritime fuel sold at all local marinas for outboard engines and watercraft. It is 89 octane. There is a great website which list by zip code where to get maritime fuel, non ethanol fuel. Google for it. You can also find non ethanol gas at your local agricultural farmers co-op. Trust me farmers are not running ethanol fuel in small tractors or other agricultural gas powered equipment and neither should you if you want functioning gas powered 2-4 stroke machines.
I simply do not have any close to my house and I have been using regular 10% ethanol with no trouble. If it is convenient for you and cheap - fine. I have tried the locaters with no luck. I also do not like the idea of traveling long distances with gas cans in the back of my truck; the local stations and short distances are safer.

If I was rebuilding my carburetors all the time I might agree with you - but I am not. I haven't worked on one of my carburetors the last two years. The year before that I worked on one that was on a piece of equipment 30 years old; which is normal. Or I replaced cracked fuel lines on my older chainsaws; which is also normal. All of these plastic and rubber parts disintegrated before ethanol containing fuel - it is simply a matter of how fast they disintegrate now.
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
21,341 posts, read 54,445,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I simply do not have any close to my house and I have been using regular 10% ethanol with no trouble. If it is convenient for you and cheap - fine. I have tried the locaters with no luck. I also do not like the idea of traveling long distances with gas cans in the back of my truck; the local stations and short distances are safer.

If I was rebuilding my carburetors all the time I might agree with you - but I am not. I haven't worked on one of my carburetors the last two years. The year before that I worked on one that was on a piece of equipment 30 years old; which is normal. Or I replaced cracked fuel lines on my older chainsaws; which is also normal. All of these plastic and rubber parts disintegrated before ethanol containing fuel - it is simply a matter of how fast they disintegrate now.
If you burn through the ethanol qucily, it will be fine It is when you leave it sit that you get jelly. IN cold plaaces where you have seasonal use equipment, you need real gas, run them dry at the end of the season, or add stabil. I would use real gas in my cars too if it were more readily avaialble. You get better mileage, cleaner burn, fewer long term problems and no risk of jelly
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Old 09-22-2017, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,369 posts, read 8,780,781 times
Reputation: 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
If you burn through the ethanol qucily, it will be fine It is when you leave it sit that you get jelly. IN cold plaaces where you have seasonal use equipment, you need real gas, run them dry at the end of the season, or add stabil. I would use real gas in my cars too if it were more readily avaialble. You get better mileage, cleaner burn, fewer long term problems and no risk of jelly
I have not had any problems. I simply fill my tanks up at the end of the season. It is the same thing I did before the 10% ethanol when I had my mower shop 40 years ago. If I had problems I would be complaining - but I do not have anything to complain about. I leave most of my equipment in an unheated shed here in NEPA and it does get cold. The only thing I wished that I did was to bring in the batteries out of the riding tractors. I keep saying that I should and then forget. But it is just a matter of putting them on quick charge until they start.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
21,341 posts, read 54,445,579 times
Reputation: 20721
You have been lucky. I learned the hard way after paying $100 each to have the carburetors rebuilt in several different things each season. Although carbs are not hard to clean and rebuild yourself. I work and have 5 kids and a 180 year old house, and parent, and a dozen pets, and a pool, and. . . . . there is no time for hunting down parts and rebuilding carbs, so I had to pay. Now I usually just run them dry. Anything that requires extra trips to a store or to a gas station that sells real gas is a PIA.

I also discovered batteries will die forever if they fully discharge and freeze. Even deep cycle marine batteries (which cost $200 grrr). You can buy a battery maintainer (trickle charger or float charger all the same thing with different names) for about $15 at harbor freight. Sometimes they are on sale for $5. They will keep your battery from discharging. At long as they still have some charge, they are fine but if they completely discharge to dead, they usually (always?) are ruined. Every year it seems there is something I forget or something that I do not expect to sit for a long time int he winter that I do not put a maintain charger on and lose a battery. Sometimes, even if it sits all winter, a battery will not discharge. I gave up on the boat and it sat for two years under a trap without being even looked at. I figured I would need a new battery but when I went to start it, the battery was fine. No rhyme or reason to it, but if they discharge and then freeze, they are gone.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,369 posts, read 8,780,781 times
Reputation: 6792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
You have been lucky. I learned the hard way after paying $100 each to have the carburetors rebuilt in several different things each season. Although carbs are not hard to clean and rebuild yourself. I work and have 5 kids and a 180 year old house, and parent, and a dozen pets, and a pool, and. . . . . there is no time for hunting down parts and rebuilding carbs, so I had to pay. Now I usually just run them dry. Anything that requires extra trips to a store or to a gas station that sells real gas is a PIA.

I also discovered batteries will die forever if they fully discharge and freeze. Even deep cycle marine batteries (which cost $200 grrr). You can buy a battery maintainer (trickle charger or float charger all the same thing with different names) for about $15 at harbor freight. Sometimes they are on sale for $5. They will keep your battery from discharging. At long as they still have some charge, they are fine but if they completely discharge to dead, they usually (always?) are ruined. Every year it seems there is something I forget or something that I do not expect to sit for a long time int he winter that I do not put a maintain charger on and lose a battery. Sometimes, even if it sits all winter, a battery will not discharge. I gave up on the boat and it sat for two years under a trap without being even looked at. I figured I would need a new battery but when I went to start it, the battery was fine. No rhyme or reason to it, but if they discharge and then freeze, they are gone.
I really believe that a full tank to store makes a difference. It minimizes the air space inside the tank. I rebuilt many carburetors when in business; even before the 10% ethanol. Most of the ones I rebuilt came from customers that left just a small amount of gas in the tank when they stored their units. That quickly evaporated and turned to gum. Stale gas really has a rotten smell to it and sometimes I did not even have to look at the customers equipment to know the problem - I could smell it!

Back then Stabil was the only additive that B&S recommended. B&S was at the top of their game and made more motors than any other corporation in the world. I sold a lot of Stabil and recommended it to my customers. But, for myself since I could rebuild the carburetors; I went the other route. And it has worked for me for decades. But it has never bothered me if I did have to rebuild the carburetor - which I never felt that this practice forced me to other than what I felt was normal degradation.

As far as the batteries for riding tractors; many are simply cheap batteries that will not last more that just a few seasons and sometimes not that long. Of course you get into better batteries when you spend more on the mowers; but not all the time.
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