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Old 09-29-2017, 07:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post
whatever is the cause (and potentially helpful details about actual growing conditions for your tree seem to have come in dribs and drabs during this thread) the plant does not seem to be behaving "normally". your problem may be that the tree is not well adapted to your area and is indeed kind of stressed by your climatic and soil conditions (it generally prefers a rich deep soil for best performance though it can do with less than ideal situations including my rather sandy (loam), nutrient poor, seasonally dry (little or no summer rain for over 3 months).


FWIW, the "southern living garden book" doesn't recommend this species for the "tropical south" which includes Tampa in their map likely because of climatic concerns. in fact as far as they are concerned right, wrong, or indifferently the tree is not supposed to be a good grower in most all of Florida. that said, plants don't read books, LOL and in fact can be more adaptable to diverse and seemingly hostile growing conditions than the "experts" might believe. BUT assuming that the plants can survive in the first place they may indeed behave differently if they are planted under different growing conditions (nominally evergreen trees may become at least semi-deciduous under cool winter conditions and normally deciduous trees can become semi-evergreen in a warm winter climate for example). I have a number of Mexican oak species that are supposedly deciduous in their native habitat but are completely evergreen under my conditions so such differences from the "normal" can and do happen.


hopefully whatever reasons are causing defoliation your tree will get back into the swing of things sooner or later.


BTW, how did it flower before it decided to defoliate?
No flowers. I bought the tree as a stick in the mail last jan.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:23 PM
 
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IMHO, then if you indeed had no flowers (hard to miss as they are quite showy even as individuals) and you got the plant as a "stick" you in fact likely have FLOWER buds rather than SEED pods on your tree. IF so and they and the rest of the plant are actually in viable condition they MIGHT (or might not) flower sooner or later. the differences in seasonal weather/heat and moisture patterns between your part of Florida and the rest of the country may cause significant differences in when your tree puts on leaves and when they fall as well as when flowering is initiated. FWIW, my tree always sets flower buds at this time of year while the leaves are still on the tree and in fact may even set out a few flowers if fall weather is warm and dry and then opens the majority of the rest in spring on bare branches before the leaves emerge.


here's hoping that your plant may actually be getting ready to flower instead of getting ready to die.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 09-29-2017 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post
IMHO, then if you indeed had no flowers (hard to miss as they are quite showy even as individuals) and you got the plant as a "stick" you in fact likely have FLOWER buds rather than SEED pods on your tree. IF so and they and the rest of the plant are actually in viable condition they MIGHT (or might not) flower sooner or later. the differences in seasonal weather/heat and moisture patterns between your part of Florida and the rest of the country may cause significant differences in when your tree puts on leaves and when they fall as well as when flowering is initiated. FWIW, my tree always sets flower buds at this time of year while the leaves are still on the tree and in fact may even set out a few flowers if fall weather is warm and dry and then opens the majority of the rest in spring on bare branches before the leaves emerge.


here's hoping that your plant may actually be getting ready to flower instead of getting ready to die.
I will keep you updated as the months go by.
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Old 09-30-2017, 06:12 AM
 
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Tree is as green as can be so it is not dead. Not sure why it went bare so soon.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ1988 View Post
Tree is as green as can be so it is not dead. Not sure why it went bare so soon.
again, I suggest the possibility of some kind of stress on the plant due perhaps to a combination of environmental factors---heat, lots of water sometimes due to local weather and climate, periodic "drought" due to excessively well-drained soil (possibly very alkaline if it has lots of limestone and the tree probably grows best in soils that are much less alkaline at best) that the plant is not "used" to and all apparently in a short period of time while just trying to establish itself in it's "new home" (which can be hard on a plant even under more optimal conditions---it's called "transplant shock"). sometimes that kind of stress is not noticed initially but may come on later on; sometimes as the result of excessive "top growth" that you mentioned that outstrips the ability of the roots to draw adequate nutrients and water to sustain it.


it's not a true "tropical" plant despite the exotic look (which is why is even grows to good size in parts Pennsylvania for example) so it may be trying to cope with it's new "alien" environment by trying to reduce some of that stress by (in this case) dropping it's leaves and going at least semi-dormant----which a number of different plants may do when under stress in various situations. I had similar problems with sudden leaf loss on some of the "experimental" plants I bought in southern California when the soil in their pots un-expectantly dried out on a several day transit back to Oregon with hot temps inside (and outside) our NON air-conditioned vehicle.


good luck and keep us posted.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 09-30-2017 at 08:42 AM..
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post
again, I suggest the possibility of some kind of stress on the plant due perhaps to a combination of environmental factors---heat, lots of water sometimes due to local weather and climate, periodic "drought" due to excessively well-drained soil that the plant is not "used" to and all apparently in a short period of time while just trying to establish itself in it's "new home". it's not a true "tropical" plant despite the exotic look (which is why is even grows to good size in parts Pennsylvania for example) so it may be trying to cope with it's "alien" environment and reducing some of that stress by (in this case) dropping it's leaves and going at least semi-dormant----which a number of plants may do when under stress in various situations.


good luck and keep us posted.
We have not had normal weather in my area for years. Winters have warmed up so much and go weeks without rain in the summer and then get 20 to 30" in a few weeks time then dry rest of the year. You can see the tree last Jan in the green pot when i first got it.
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Old 09-30-2017, 08:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ1988 View Post
We have not had normal weather in my area for years. Winters have warmed up so much and go weeks without rain in the summer and then get 20 to 30" in a few weeks time then dry rest of the year. You can see the tree last Jan in the green pot when i first got it.
sounds like some kind of environmental stress for both you and your plant. you luckily can go inside and turn on the air-conditioning and artificially create a more equitable/comfortable climate. OTOH, your plant must stay put and deal with trying to grow LOTS of new stems and leaves and the roots necessary to sustain them in an apparently very different situation than it probably grows normally either in cultivation or in nature without that kind of help and blessed relief you probably have access to.


forgot to mention that if the tree was sent as a (bare-root???) "stick" it may have had stress on the journey to you, then being put into a pot for a while and then taken out of the pot and planted AGAIN in that potentially very stressful environment we've been talking about all in a relatively short time by plant standards I might guess---a possible "triple whammy" of at least unsettling situations in and of themselves for most any plant even under optimal conditions.


that it may still be alive and perhaps even trying to flower is a tribute to it's inherent toughness and adaptability (which may be why in some other areas it can indeed grow very well, flower and set viable seed, naturalize, and become a "weed" tree).


good luck to you and it.


p.s. looks like a very nice telescope.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 09-30-2017 at 09:03 AM..
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Old 09-30-2017, 09:30 AM
 
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I build scopes for fun. The tree took off like crazy in the spring and grew 15 ft.
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Old 09-30-2017, 09:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ1988 View Post
I build scopes for fun. The tree took off like crazy in the spring and grew 15 ft.

and it may well be that the "crazy" growth was in fact at least partly the cause of it's present condition---more top stem growth than grow of new roots in a stressful growing new environment could support. the rule of thumb is usually that the plant have as much root volume in the ground as it has crown and stem volume which right now it probably not happening which may be why the plant "shut down" leaf production and dropped what it had so that hopefully the roots can catch up.
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:06 AM
 
8,319 posts, read 6,246,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post
and it may well be that the "crazy" growth was in fact at least partly the cause of it's present condition---more top stem growth than grow of new roots in a stressful growing new environment could support. the rule of thumb is usually that the plant have as much root volume in the ground as it has crown and stem volume which right now it probably not happening which may be why the plant "shut down" leaf production and dropped what it had so that hopefully the roots can catch up.
Could be. Just give it time and see what it will do. I figure next spring it will come back.
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