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Your local ag extension office will be your best help because they will be familiar with what you are dealing with.
I've lived in 2 homes with very poor soil and could not grow certain veggies or flowers. In one place, Florida, both the soil was crappy and later I found out the water was so salty it was killing the few things that tried to grow. So I learned to make areas with better soil and grew some things in large potting bags.
If this is your final home you could take a long term outlook and create your topsoil. Hugelkultur (raised bed system) has been used for thousands of years, the modern version of hugelkultur is "lasagna beds". I've done the lasagna and it worked like a charm on soil that needed a pickaxe not a shovel.
Now I have clay soil and am happy.
Hope you can grow your favorite beet veggies. I like them too but sadly spouse is not much liking them.
Do you have an ag extension in your area that could do a soil analysis...and then recommend the proper amendments?
It was a big help for us and what to do with our awful clay soil. Some of the recommendations we got were counterintuitive but really really helped (this was for fruit trees, so YMMV for garden veggies).
Having a good, independent garden store is a good resource too, better than the big box stores. The one we shop at has over 20 options for soil and soil amendments and the employees there are very knowledgeable.
Yes, I had the soil tested through the extension service a few months ago so I would be ready but I didn't really learn anything new. They said it was sandy loam! I've always had sandy loam but this is different. This is muck. Extension service recommended cottonseed something or other and not much more. So I guess my main problem is just the consistency.
For some reason (probably Walmart & Home Depot) they no longer have real garden centers around here. I do have White Flower Farm but that's a distance to travel and I don't have time. I noticed people working at the huge town garden plots today so maybe tomorrow I can stop and ask people what to do or (hint hint) if I bring a pail can I grab a bucketful of real soil LOL.
So I could use the sand that they have for sandboxes? They had it at Home Depot. If so, the only problem would be CARRYING it. If I could get it back here I would mix it with my compost and some of my regular soil. Maybe I wouldn't need vermiculite?
I would be careful about adding sand to clay soil. I thought it would help to loosen up the clay soil, but I found a small amount of sand has the opposite effect. Here is something I found on an extension site:
Quote:
Sand is occasionally used to improve clay soils; however, large amounts are needed to achieve noticeable soil improvement. Clay soils must contain about 60 percent by volume of a coarse, uniform sand to achieve significant improvement in drainage.
I've noticed they use sand on golf courses but it is a special kind of sand, not what you would find at Home Depot.
Is there a Lowes around you? Hardware store? Walmart for sure is around. Take a ride and check them out. I don't have experience growing in sand so I can't help there
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
Also, how long does it take for all that bark in the Miracle Grow soil to become actual soil? It really bothers me that I thought I was buying regular soil but it turned out to be more like bark mulch.
Not sure I still get this. What did the bag title say? The one that says "with compost" will have small pieces of bark but nothing overwhelming or looking like mulch. Maybe was a bad batch that was processed?
How about going back and talking to a manager and opening another bag of MG garden soil to see how it looks first. If its good, buy it. The bark will be broken down next year, its great for the soil. Leave it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Chick
That's what we have done... remove all the clay and rocks, and replace with screened soil/compost.
The rocks continue to come back, but the soil gets better every year with annual amendments.
Interesting, how much did you remove, how deep? I think 6 inches worth will take care of the rocks that come up. Do you think the top soil you had wasn't screen enough and had 1"+ rocks with it?
You need some additional amendments to go with the Miracle Grow together with your own natural soil that you have in your yard. Potting soil is okay but it's not great because it's intended to have fertilizers added to it too regularly, it doesn't really offer up much nutrients if it's used outdoors. The Miracle Grow WILL turn into soil and the woody bits in there are organic so it's okay. Having soil that is too fine and smooth doesn't allow for proper air and water circulation around the roots which may become compacted. So I'd suggest you mix some amendments all together, all of which should be available at a gardening supplies outlet, equal parts of each added to:
- your natural soil broken up and loosened into smaller pieces by chopping and pounding it vigorously with a rake or shovel or working it through a 1/4 inch screen - then add the following amendments, and mix it all together. Pretend you're mixing together the ingredients of a perfect cake recipe:
- the Miracle Grow
- SAND - very important to allow for proper drainage and to smooth out lumpy, sticky soil (beets can grow better with lots of sand, so can a lot of other root veggies)
- a mix of dry grass clippings or other dry leafy organic material
- vermiculite which is a form of gold colored mica (not perlite which is crushed volcanic glass which is puffed up with air)
- mushroom manure or broken up rotted horse manure or other well rotted compost which will have a goodly amount of organic material in it.
- peat moss soil (the kind used for starting seedlings in pots indoors)
- last but not least a coffee can full of live earthworms sprinkled evenly onto the bed and immediatly lightly covered over with half an inch of soil before birds notice and steal them. The earthworms will feed on the grass clippings and leafy organics you give them, they'll create more air circulation and drainage, break up chunks of sticky soil and provide you with great worm castings (worm poop) that is very nutritious for the plants.
Then water the mixed soil to a depth of two or three inches and the earthworms will do the rest of the mixing and stirring below the surface for you.
All of these combined will give you nutrients, water retention, air circulation, good drainage and when the earthworms have finished mixing and fine tuning it, it will be light, fluffy soil that you could practically throw yourself onto, sink into and go to sleep.
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Curious as to why you recomend vermiculite over perlite. Initially I'd say vermiculite is better as it will hold moisture better than perlite. However, over time the vermiculite breaks down into a clay-like material whereas perlite doesn't. For the OP's situation I'd buy some big bags of perlite and mix it into the soil along with good compost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
Yes, I had the soil tested through the extension service a few months ago so I would be ready but I didn't really learn anything new. They said it was sandy loam! I've always had sandy loam but this is different. This is muck. Extension service recommended cottonseed something or other and not much more. So I guess my main problem is just the consistency.
For some reason (probably Walmart & Home Depot) they no longer have real garden centers around here. I do have White Flower Farm but that's a distance to travel and I don't have time. I noticed people working at the huge town garden plots today so maybe tomorrow I can stop and ask people what to do or (hint hint) if I bring a pail can I grab a bucketful of real soil LOL.
So I could use the sand that they have for sandboxes? They had it at Home Depot. If so, the only problem would be CARRYING it. If I could get it back here I would mix it with my compost and some of my regular soil. Maybe I wouldn't need vermiculite?
Another reason to go with perlite to help improve the soil structure - it is way lighter than sand.
Interesting, how much did you remove, how deep? I think 6 inches worth will take care of the rocks that come up. Do you think the top soil you had wasn't screen enough and had 1"+ rocks with it?
Yep, about six inches. And yes, that took care of all the rocks in those six inches.
The top soil purchased had zero rocks in it.
The rock percolated up from further down.
We had never seen anything like it until that particular yard.
I would prepare a new bed - remove all rocks and clay, refill with topsoil and compost and plant with flowers.
The next year, I would go to plant in that same bed. Insert a garden trowel and, clang... The tip would hit a rock.
And not all small ones either! Some were 3 and 4 inches across. They were not there the previous year, but they were there then! Remove them only to find more the next year.
Neightbors had the same issue.
Don't know the 'why' of it. Underground springs? old mine shafts? many speculated, but no one ever figured it out.
Curious as to why you recomend vermiculite over perlite. Initially I'd say vermiculite is better as it will hold moisture better than perlite. However, over time the vermiculite breaks down into a clay-like material whereas perlite doesn't. For the OP's situation I'd buy some big bags of perlite and mix it into the soil along with good compost.
Another reason to go with perlite to help improve the soil structure - it is way lighter than sand.
I look at the big picture of what is best over the long run for the over-all nature of the plants and other living organisms in the soil, and also what will give me more bang for my bucks. Vermiculite is kinder and is a supplement that slowly delivers nutrients and perlite isn't supplemental nor is it friendly to living things, all it delivers is drainage.
Perlite is sharp edged, gritty, abrasive, heated and puffed up glass (75% silicon dioxide) that cuts or slices up softer things that come into contact with it. Vermiculite is kinder to the nature of the soil and all that lives in the soil. It is a slow release mineral composition that delivers essential nutrients to soil and roots. It holds and will attract positively charged ions, like potassium, magnesium, calcium, and ammonium which are vital elements that it slowly releases into the soil and to the plant roots.
It's a solar collector that has warm insulative properties in winter to keep soil warmer and provides warmer water retention properties so that it won't freeze so easily in winter. It's a supplement that is digestible by important earthworms without harming or toxifying them and it doesn't cut up the digestive tracts or the skin of worms or the exo-skeletons of beneficial insects living in the soil. Even when vermiculite eventually breaks down into clay-like dust particles it still delivers its nutritional supplements and the water retention due to its laminated structure. These are all properties that perlite does not possess.
If I need silicon dioxide (glass) and drainage in my soil I will always choose natural sand over perlite because, although sand and perlite may not provide nutrients to roots, the sand is still safer than sharp perlite for the roots and all the other living things in the soils, it will go through a worm's digestive tract without harm and it blends much, much better with other soil ingredients.
I would be careful about adding sand to clay soil. I thought it would help to loosen up the clay soil, but I found a small amount of sand has the opposite effect. Here is something I found on an extension site:
I've noticed they use sand on golf courses but it is a special kind of sand, not what you would find at Home Depot.
This. Adding some sand makes it worse. I once made that mistake.
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but that's a distance to travel and I don't have time. I noticed people working at the huge town garden plots today so maybe tomorrow I can stop and ask people what to do or (hint hint) if I bring a pail can I grab a bucketful of real soil LOL. 
What did the bag title say? The one that says "with compost" will have small pieces of bark but nothing overwhelming or looking like mulch. Maybe was a bad batch that was processed? 
