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Hello my name is Amy Jackson daughter of Donna K. Skipper. For some that are trying to trace our ancestry for the first time may not know the "rules of the rolls". However, now that I have had done some research I am learning more and more. When stories get passed down from generation to generation I am sure the it gets more dramatic. My mother's mother was born 1933 so we think birth certificate don't have her name listed correctly. Top it off from the age of 2 she was taken from her parents was raised by her grandparents and don't know why. What I am trying to get to is this story about Mahala, Mahaley J. Vann, Jonathan Smith is one she was told. At this point I would just like some solid evidence on who Mahala and Jonathan Smith was... I am trying my hardest to gather a family tree for my grandmother. So in saying that thank you to all the people who try and someone else.
Well...I see a lot of well intentioned posts about Mahala - I am a direct descendant of Mahala and Joseph Sumner. My family is from Worth County Georgia. A bunch of us recently did the DNA test which shows zero, nada, zippo American Native in any of us. So my guess is that Mahala was not American Indian of any sort. By the way - Creek Indians settled around Worth County. Cherokees were found much farther north. Also - we have a book about the Sumner family that used Judge Folks Huxford's "Pioneers of Wiregrass Georgia" that shows Mahala as being born 10-11-1799 in Emanuel County Georgia - that's where she and Joseph met and married. We too used to incorporate the myth of some sort of "Indian Blood" in us - until the DNA put a stop to that. We are an uninteresting mix of North African and European. Hope this helps....
First thing first. When I first started trying to gather the information for my grandmother, I jumped in head first. The worst thing I done was create an account through Ancestry. I just thought all the info people put on their tree would at least be correct. I had over 400 people. I thought this is easy. WRONG!!!! When I began the person I had that was a direct link to Mahala was not the right person. Long and short my grandmother has done a DNA. No native American blood either. However, I spoke with someone in Customer Service through Ancestry. I was told even if Native American don't show up doesn't mean your not. I have and I still am learning to go through Indian Rolls and reading them. Thank you Gatorwoman. We were almost kin. LOL. Now I am going through the Haggards. WOW.
First thing first. When I first started trying to gather the information for my grandmother, I jumped in head first. The worst thing I done was create an account through Ancestry. I just thought all the info people put on their tree would at least be correct. I had over 400 people. I thought this is easy. WRONG!!!! When I began the person I had that was a direct link to Mahala was not the right person. Long and short my grandmother has done a DNA. No native American blood either. However, I spoke with someone in Customer Service through Ancestry. I was told even if Native American don't show up doesn't mean your not. I have and I still am learning to go through Indian Rolls and reading them. Thank you Gatorwoman. We were almost kin. LOL. Now I am going through the Haggards. WOW.
That is true about DNA, here are two cases you could have Native American ancestry and it not show up on DNA:
1) It's much further back than expected. You are *mostly* guaranteed to have DNA from 5 generations back in an autosomal DNA test. This means that whoever tested would show Native American DNA of some sorts if they had a full blooded Native American within 5 previous generations.
So this brings many scenarios in which no DNA will show if the ancestor if far enough back or they themselves were only part Native American.
I personally have run into this, ironically with a lot of old Georgian ancestry myself, from the early forming of Gilmer and Pickens counties in fact, right smack in former Cherokee territory... I have had myself, my mother, grandmother, and aunt tested with multiple DNA test companies. On Ancestry DNA I tested myself, my mother, and grandmother... no Native American came up at all. I had my mother and her sister (my aunt) tested on 23andme. None for my mother, but my aunt came up with a very small 0.1-0.2% at about a 75% confidence level. If that is in fact legitimate then it is probably over 5 generations back and that fits with the timeline. I have found a record of a many times great uncle marrying a native american woman in Georgia and is then listed with NA for his wife and children (but white for him) in these areas of Georgia as well as similar cases. So now that it seems 75% likely there is some NA far back it certainly can fit with the time frames and scenarios. Of course it's not 100% so until I test further and discover more I won't be able to confidently say there was any NA. I have stories of NA from at least 2 other branches of my ancestry as well that I have found no evidence for (and suspect are false stories).
2) The Native American DNA isn't being picked up... ironically it seems we don't have a huge reference set of NA DNA, enough to identify most if it I believe but it seems possible some can slip through. Also NA are admixed themselves from early colonizations in some areas, so this can complicate things.
What I will suggest though is the simplest answer is usually correct. Until you find any concrete NA evidence then I would suspect there is none.
You might also consider looking at Chickasaw history and records rather than just Cherokee. Many similarities in the locations and travels of the Cherokees and Chickasaws. My in-laws thought their ancestry was Cherokee, so that's where I dug and dug, but finally it was discovered they're Chickasaw.
South Carolina and Georgia. And the ancestors did deny heritage so that they wouldn't be on any lists or rolls. Before Trail of Tears the families headed west on their own to Alabama, and finally to Texas. Later they did go to Oklahoma to try and get land being offered to Cherokees and Chickasaws, but their applications were denied.
Amending my older post to say that additional research since then has turned my focus away from Chickasaw heritage to Choctaw and now back to Cherokee. In 1902 the family applied for membership in the Choctaw tribe in order to be eligible for Oklahoma land. I found a digitized copy of the application and a transcription of the interview with the Commission. But the application was denied because they couldn't prove that they had lost their Mississippi land because of the 1830 Dancing Rabbit Creek Treaty.
However, I have not found that they ever lived in Mississippi. Where they lived was northwestern Georgia, Cherokee territory, and the family kept moving west as the Cherokee land was shrunk and pushed west until the 1835 Treaty of Echota took all Cherokee land east of the Mississippi River.
Of course, where the family actually lived would not decisively prove which tribe. Although the Choctaws primarily lived in Mississippi, some were known to live in Georgia according to some memoirs in which whites coming out of Virginia had met some Choctaws in northern Georgia in the late 1700s.
First thing first. When I first started trying to gather the information for my grandmother, I jumped in head first. The worst thing I done was create an account through Ancestry. I just thought all the info people put on their tree would at least be correct. I had over 400 people. I thought this is easy. WRONG!!!!When I began the person I had that was a direct link to Mahala was not the right person. Long and short my grandmother has done a DNA. No native American blood either. However, I spoke with someone in Customer Service through Ancestry. I was told even if Native American don't show up doesn't mean your not. I have and I still am learning to go through Indian Rolls and reading them. Thank you Gatorwoman. We were almost kin. LOL. Now I am going through the Haggards. WOW.
Very Interesting!
If a person has to contact a customer service line (800-AMI-ANDN) of a DNA testing company because they show up with no markers for Indigenous American ancestry, it is crystal clear they 1) have no recent Native American ancestry or 2) Have a mistaken Identity. If you are Native American you won’t need to place a phone call to Ancestry.com. Unless people are adopted and do not know their origins, for the average American,this is not the case.
The only thing a DNA (autosomal) test can tell you is you have a recent and a biological origin or connection to Native American ancestry. Not considering rolls with ancestors on them which is the only way to confirm tribal affiliation...It is ever so....the DNA testing is placing the truth out front and ugly for many folks in which calls need to be made to appease the testee they can still be Native American with the absence of Native American DNA markers? This is mollycoddling. I wonder how many people call Ancestry.com looking for their Sub-Saharan African ancestry not showing up but still believe it's there.
If it does not show up on a DNA test, better get used to your 99.9 NON-Native American ancestry. People spend too much time painting their White or Black roots Red. Looking for phantom ancestors proves a waste and is fruitless.
Last edited by AppalachianGumbo; 04-09-2015 at 03:19 PM..
For everyone following this, luckily Mahala Smith Sumner is not a phantom ancestor. We know where she lived, who she married, who her children were, where she died and where she is buried. I have visited her grave. She was not found on the Trail of Tears nor did she go on to Oklahoma. (But there are well known family stories that are just as interesting) Most, if not all of her descendants down to the1970's are listed in "History of the Sumner Family" written byWilliam S. Sumner. The book is listed for sale on the internet. If you are that old you are probably in the book. If you are younger, you may find your parents or grandparents listed. Assuming of course that she is your ancestor.
I have followed this thread for several years. While I do understand the desire by some to find Native American roots, there is not one shred of evidence to date that those roots can be found in Mahala. Please do not ascribe to her something based on her "looks" or what you imagine a group of people should "look" like or the sound of her name. Besides being unfair, it will probably just lead you to a dead end.
Last edited by southala; 04-22-2015 at 11:04 AM..
Reason: typos
She was not Native American. I have a photo of her and several of her children. They have no native features. They very clearly have blue or light colored eyes.
I am a member within this family tree. Mahala is a nickname. If you go to Ancestry.com and look for sumner/wise. sumner and Margaret Wise Sumner, you should find a tree that includes Mahala with her entire name and a seal which authenticates her as Cherokee. Are you from California or Arkansas? I am the great granddaughter of Ettie P. Sumner.
Lisa Michaels Hanifan
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Mahala Smith Sumner
