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Old 10-10-2011, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,246,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
The people who built Europe into the economic juggernaut that it is today were Black people originally. White people came from Russia and stole the land [Europe] from the Native [Black] Europeans. So the black Dutch are like the Native Americans - They are original people of Europe, and the white man stole all of Europe from black people in the distant past. Even Rome and Greece were founded and built by Black-Native-Europeans. They were just stolen and made to look white.

The terms Black Dutch and Black Irish, refer to the tiny remnant populations of indiginous [Black] Europeans who were still left in Europe in the 1500s...But as another poster noted, they were hunted like dogs due to racism.
I hope you're not serious. There's no evidence to support any of this.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Black Dutch as being associated with Indonesians who were at one time part of the Dutch colonies and were thus able to migrate to the Netherlands. Many darker skinned folks from there are of Indonesian ancestry.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:32 PM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,041 posts, read 22,775,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
I hope you're not serious. There's no evidence to support any of this.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Black Dutch as being associated with Indonesians who were at one time part of the Dutch colonies and were thus able to migrate to the Netherlands. Many darker skinned folks from there are of Indonesian ancestry.
He/she probably is serious. There are some people who want very badly to believe that kind of utter nonsense.

As for Black Dutch, etc. that may be like Black Irish which I have heard referred not to color but to their lack of popularity due to religious differences with the locals. Thus, Black Irish may be the same as the Scots-Irish, not popular with the native Irish because they were taking their land. Both groups white skinned and various hair and eye colors, however.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:13 AM
 
18,104 posts, read 16,444,002 times
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I was told that the " Black Irish" were darker haired irish with spanish ancestry. When some spanish armada ships ran aground they stayed and mingled with the local population.There maybe might have been some long ago trade in Holland and darker skinned peoples might have been brought there or traveled there. That's just a a guess.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Stuck in NE GA right now
4,585 posts, read 10,474,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdhjhh View Post
I, too am more confused as I investigate the term. The name I'm following is Collier; can be traced back to Hastin Collier (Colyer) Orange, Virginia, 1775. Where does the term black dutch come in; before entering the U.S. or afterwards?
Orange VA during your time frame might be Saponi, there is a very good forum from people who've done a ton of research so check them out

Saponitown Forum
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:32 PM
 
30 posts, read 66,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
The people who built Europe into the economic juggernaut that it is today were Black people originally. White people came from Russia and stole the land [Europe] from the Native [Black] Europeans. So the black Dutch are like the Native Americans - They are original people of Europe, and the white man stole all of Europe from black people in the distant past. Even Rome and Greece were founded and built by Black-Native-Europeans. They were just stolen and made to look white.

The terms Black Dutch and Black Irish, refer to the tiny remnant populations of indiginous [Black] Europeans who were still left in Europe in the 1500s...But as another poster noted, they were hunted like dogs due to racism.
Just out of curiosity, where did you learn this?
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:01 PM
 
Location: North Central Illinois
5,382 posts, read 3,867,389 times
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Here's my two cents and this might be wrong but in regards to black Irish; I am from a large Irish immigrant community. My mother is half Irish and she always called everybody who was Irish with black hair, including herself, black Irish.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:25 AM
 
Location: The Jar
20,071 posts, read 13,744,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milleka View Post
I'm curious. Has anyone here had your family referred to as Black Dutch? My great grandmother always said her family was Black Dutch and I've always wondered what that meant. I've done some online research on the subject and came back even more confused than before. It is suggested that Black Dutch can mean anything from olive complected Germans, Cherokees posing as whites, or Melungeon (mixed white, black, jew, indian).

If you have been told that you are Black Dutch, what do you look like? Or what does your family primarily look like? For example, the majority of people in my extended family have brown eyes, tan skin, and coarse dark hair. Do you know for sure what your actual ethnicity is? What does Black Dutch mean in your family?

Used (at least in my family) to describe Cherokee ancestry during a time when it wasn't so great to be known as a Native American

I have a family full of people with dark hair, skin, eyes, and also light skin, hair, eyes!

You never know how the genes will mix and turn out!
Never judge a book by its cover. We are on the Cherokee roles, and some of us look VERY caucasian.
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:24 AM
 
5,106 posts, read 6,060,240 times
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Suggest you check the dates on the reference to "Black Dutch". If you find it was in the early 1800s, certainly by 1835-1860; then it was an ethnic designation taken by possible indian mix people for census and other federal government documents to identify them as caucasian american not "People of Color". So they could therefore own property, etc.

As you may remember, 1835 was the time of the Indian Removal under President Jackson after gold was discovered in Cherokee territory. Prior to that there had been many court decisions including Supreme Court that the Cherokee brought to be allowed to stay on their land.

So for several reasons (at least the Cherokee with whom I am most aware); called themselves "Black Dutch" and their white neighbors confirmed that 'Mr Baker' was white, was a relative, etc and had lived and farmed the neighboring farm. Therefore some of this group slipped through the net.

As to the original Black Dutch, I have heard there was a valley in Germany that had darker skinned Germans, but I heard it was attributed to the Moor take over of parts of Europe way back when. So the Black Dutch designation made some sense.

For "Black Irish", all theories may be right. A friend of mine from Ireland is Black Irish and my father in law was Black Irish. My friend says that they also call it Nordic Blond because they are towhead as little ones and it changes to dark when they are grown. He calls me "Hot Irish" because I am a ginger. Another Irish friend tells me there are Irish named "Gonzales" descending from Armada survivors. So there is that too.
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:05 AM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,041 posts, read 22,775,493 times
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According to a Smithsonian Institute web page Black Dutch refers to Gypsies who came from Germany.

That makes sense in the same way that Germans in America who said they were Deutsch were misunderstood and believed to be saying that they were Dutch. Add to that the fact that Gypsies had light brown skin, dark hair and eyes.

"Gypsies" in the United States

Where did the Gypsies originate? India.

"a small group of founders splitting from a single ethnic population in the Indian subcontinent."
--source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1235543/
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Old 10-16-2011, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,768,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
The people who built Europe into the economic juggernaut that it is today were Black people originally. White people came from Russia and stole the land [Europe] from the Native [Black] Europeans. So the black Dutch are like the Native Americans - They are original people of Europe, and the white man stole all of Europe from black people in the distant past. Even Rome and Greece were founded and built by Black-Native-Europeans. They were just stolen and made to look white.

The terms Black Dutch and Black Irish, refer to the tiny remnant populations of indiginous [Black] Europeans who were still left in Europe in the 1500s...But as another poster noted, they were hunted like dogs due to racism.
Your delusional. The Black Dutch, etc can be explained by the Moorish Conquest of Spain. As the Spanish Empire expanded in Europe Spanish soldiers intermarried with local women in the Netherlands, Germany etc. Since many of these Spaniards had Moorish blood their children had the potential to look noticeably different than the traditional fairer skin Northern European.

Also the term "Black" did not necessarily mean "African" in those days. Anyone who was not fair skinned could be deemed "Black" Gypsies for example, Turks etc.
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