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Old 12-14-2014, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
48 posts, read 45,485 times
Reputation: 57

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milleka View Post
I'm curious. Has anyone here had your family referred to as Black Dutch? My great grandmother always said her family was Black Dutch and I've always wondered what that meant. I've done some online research on the subject and came back even more confused than before. It is suggested that Black Dutch can mean anything from olive complected Germans, Cherokees posing as whites, or Melungeon (mixed white, black, jew, indian).

If you have been told that you are Black Dutch, what do you look like? Or what does your family primarily look like? For example, the majority of people in my extended family have brown eyes, tan skin, and coarse dark hair. Do you know for sure what your actual ethnicity is? What does Black Dutch mean in your family?
A few decades ago Black Dutch was a coded reference for "I don't want to admit Native American or some other kind of ethnic background" heritage but instead pretend to be this European dark skinned ethnic background. Seriously, I am not kidding. Yes, this was in Texas.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:16 AM
 
1 posts, read 620 times
Reputation: 10
Our family is in West Michigan and we have always had some of what we called "Dark Dutch". Dark Brown Hair and Eyes, and who tan easily in summer. I am considered Dark Dutch in my family, but two of my three children are Blond-haired and Blue-eyed. Our family tree has been traced back to Staphorst, Overisjssel, Netherlands from the 1830's, who traveled to West Michigan and helped form the villages of Drenthe, Dornspijk, and Oakland, who have now all expanded to Holland, Zeeland, Borculo, and Grand Rapids. As the Netherlands was a country of many sailors long ago, there is a theory that the dark coloring came from the East Indies and intermarriage of those darker races. Or it could simply be a more Spanish or French coloring as well.
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:25 PM
 
3,137 posts, read 1,732,095 times
Reputation: 5983
Quote:
Originally Posted by caramaddie View Post
A few decades ago Black Dutch was a coded reference for "I don't want to admit Native American or some other kind of ethnic background" heritage but instead pretend to be this European dark skinned ethnic background. Seriously, I am not kidding. Yes, this was in Texas.
I've heard same thing.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:40 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
5,913 posts, read 3,322,162 times
Reputation: 11047
I actually never heard of that term and I have some Dutch and Walloon ancestry. The Spanish occupation and decades of warfare between Spain and Netherlands could have left a genetic influence.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
9,007 posts, read 10,619,731 times
Reputation: 9466
Quote:
Originally Posted by tassity22 View Post
I've heard same thing.
Same. And I don't have a clue with my own ancestry. One of my gggrandmothers was described as "Black Dutch" back in the 1800s and she is one of my brick walls. I've been told possibly part Native American, possibly part African American, possibly Romany. People who are much better at searching than I cannot find her ancestry.
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:23 AM
 
1 posts, read 476 times
Reputation: 10
My family claimed "black Dutch" as well and we are from Oklahoma. I was told that when our ancestors were coming here on the trail of tears, they claimed black Dutch, instead of Indian, to save their lives. The lie continued because it just wasn't popular back then to be Indian. My great grandparents on my mother's side, both have dark skin, eyes and hair.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:46 AM
 
2 posts, read 202 times
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I have always been told my ggrandad was 1/2 Cherokee . he was on the does rolls , which I haven't heard mention of here .my ggrandma always claimed black dutch . never new that she was possibly Cherokee as well . guess mixed marriage might not been mixed at all !! anyway , im wondering if anyone has had geneoligy testing to confirm any of these theories?? was concidering it my self .cant hurt ?!
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:08 PM
 
Location: VT; previously MD & NJ
2,058 posts, read 1,217,321 times
Reputation: 5840
23&Me will show if you have "East Asian and Native American" DNA but they cannot pinpoint what tribe or even region of the country. They seem to have difficult separating East Asian from Native American sometimes.

The caution is, there are many many posts on the 23&Me forum where people had family stories of Native American ancestry, but it did not show up on their DNA. In many cases, each generation talked about a great grandmother who was Native American, but along the way they lost how far back in time that actually was (whose great grandmother?). It will wash out over time if descendants don't remarry into the Native community.

If you can find any of the paperwork for your ancestor on the Dawes Rolls, you might have some luck finding out about your family heritage.

https://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes
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Old 02-23-2019, 07:01 AM
 
272 posts, read 458,647 times
Reputation: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by buickbill View Post
I have always been told my ggrandad was 1/2 Cherokee . he was on the does rolls , which I haven't heard mention of here .my ggrandma always claimed black dutch . never new that she was possibly Cherokee as well . guess mixed marriage might not been mixed at all !! anyway , im wondering if anyone has had geneoligy testing to confirm any of these theories?? was concidering it my self .cant hurt ?!
You mean the "Dawes" rolls issued by the Dawes commission in Oklahoma. I will be more than happy to mention. Dawes are the *final" rolls. There are three Cherokee tribes which are three different nations of Cherokee Indians. The Keetoowah (Old Settlers), Cherokee Nation both in Oklahoma and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina. Eastern band *final* roll is the Baker roll. The Dawes roll was for the purpose of land allotment with various tribes, not just the Cherokee. Dawes had the Chickasaw, Creek, Seminole, Choctaw and Cherokee (Keetoowah and the Nation).

Cherokee were not just on one Roll. Cherokee were documented on multiple rolls, pre-removal and post removal due to the Indian Removal (Trail of Tears). Cherokee appeared on successive rolls after being confirmed on prior rolls. If someone on the Dawes is listed "BB" by blood they have been confirmed a prior rolls.

Before removal
Reservation Rolls – 1817
Emigration Rolls – 1817-1835
Henderson Roll – 1835

Mullay Roll – 1848 - Eastern Band

Western Rolls
Siler Roll – 1851
Old Settler Roll – 1851
Chapman Roll – 1852
Drennen Roll – 1852
Act of Congress Roll – 1854
Swetland Roll – 1869
Hester Roll – 1883
Wallace Roll – 1888
Kern-Clifton Roll – 1896-1897
Dawes Rolls – 1898-1907
Churchill Roll – 1908
Keetoowah Base Roll
Guion Miller Roll – 1909 - Application for settlement

Final Rolls Eastern Band
Baker Roll – 1924


You can take a DNA to see if you have general Native American ancestry, but you will need to trace your great grandmother on a documented paper trail to the Cherokee tribe. As far as "Black Dutch." The exodus of people onto DNA testing sites to look for their exotic ancestry have confirmed the mythical Indian Myth stories passed from generation to generation. Great great so and so was a Cherokee Indian but turned out to be a Black ancestor or other.
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:50 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,039 posts, read 20,834,231 times
Reputation: 7640
Do you have links to check the various rolls you listed?

Dawes rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppalachianGumbo View Post
You mean the "Dawes" rolls issued by the Dawes commission in Oklahoma. I will be more than happy to mention. Dawes are the *final" rolls. There are three Cherokee tribes which are three different nations of Cherokee Indians. The Keetoowah (Old Settlers), Cherokee Nation both in Oklahoma and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina. Eastern band *final* roll is the Baker roll. The Dawes roll was for the purpose of land allotment with various tribes, not just the Cherokee. Dawes had the Chickasaw, Creek, Seminole, Choctaw and Cherokee (Keetoowah and the Nation).

Cherokee were not just on one Roll. Cherokee were documented on multiple rolls, pre-removal and post removal due to the Indian Removal (Trail of Tears). Cherokee appeared on successive rolls after being confirmed on prior rolls. If someone on the Dawes is listed "BB" by blood they have been confirmed a prior rolls.

Before removal
Reservation Rolls 1817
Emigration Rolls 1817-1835
Henderson Roll 1835

Mullay Roll 1848 - Eastern Band

Western Rolls
Siler Roll 1851
Old Settler Roll 1851
Chapman Roll 1852
Drennen Roll 1852
Act of Congress Roll 1854
Swetland Roll 1869
Hester Roll 1883
Wallace Roll 1888
Kern-Clifton Roll 1896-1897
Dawes Rolls 1898-1907
Churchill Roll 1908
Keetoowah Base Roll
Guion Miller Roll 1909 - Application for settlement

Final Rolls Eastern Band
Baker Roll 1924


You can take a DNA to see if you have general Native American ancestry, but you will need to trace your great grandmother on a documented paper trail to the Cherokee tribe. As far as "Black Dutch." The exodus of people onto DNA testing sites to look for their exotic ancestry have confirmed the mythical Indian Myth stories passed from generation to generation. Great great so and so was a Cherokee Indian but turned out to be a Black ancestor or other.
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